Hi, Ben, On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 3:18 PM Ben Cotton <bcotton@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Hi Aleksandra, > > Thank you for the thoughtful feedback. I'm going to reply to bits and > pieces of your comments. > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 5:49 AM Aleksandra Fedorova <alpha@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > First of all, i think this new message looks hostile, especially this part: "The Fedora Project will be a reference for everyone who shares this vision", which reads as "If you share the vision, you must be in Fedora". > > > I had not considered that interpretation. Our intent was the opposite: > we want to be a reference model of sorts. In other words, we expect > that there are many other communities out there who will share our > vision and do their own parts to make it happen. Our goal is to serve > as an example of how to do it "right". Isn't exactly the problem? I don't think we can claim that we are doing it "right" (..unlike others), or will be doing. We don't know what is "right" yet, and we may never achieve that. We make our mistakes, and it is the search which is important. > If you have suggestions on how > to convey that meaning more clearly, they are very welcome. Writing is hard (and disagreeing is much easier), so I don't really have an answer. I would maybe try to switch from "serve as example" to "serve as a tool, which helps everyone to achieve that goal" > > It seems you are trying to make it sound more appealing or exciting. As you see it as a way to invite new people. > > But mission statement or vision is different from a marketing talking point. It is not what attracts attention or curiosity, it is what binds us together to do a specific thing. > > It is a hand wavy proclamation that says that Fedora Project's ultimate goal is the World Peace and Prosperity. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely support the goal :) But what makes Fedora to be Fedora is the way how exactly we are trying to help to reach this goal. > > It's important to not conflate mission statements and vision > statements. A vision statement should be how we envision the world > (hence the name); it's supposed to be vague and hand-wavy. It's > purpose is inspirational, not practical. Ok, I get you point on mission vs vision, but then this vision part seems to be weak for me. The problem is that it hits very close to the Linkedin-level of buzzwordness (yes, i've just invented this term), which more or less triggers the internal adblock rather than excitement. I mean is it really different from what everyone claims nowadays? Why would I choose to look into this one in a thousand of similar ones? I would generally agree with the statement of being welcoming and such, but isn't it a default? > A mission statement defines > the scope of what we're going to do to make our vision come true. The > vision is broader than the Fedora Project could ever hope to achieve > on it's own. We'll do our part (which is what the mission statement > describes) and other communities will do theirs. > > > Moreover, I have an alternative proposal [1] which I haven't got a lot of feedback yet. > > It maybe worded differently, but in short, I'd like to see the "Integrate First" statement added to our core values, somewhere next to the Upstream First thing. > > > I don't see that as an alternative proposal but a complimentary > proposal. This addresses the mission more than the vision. Part of the > reason you haven't had much feedback on this is that we realized we > needed to set the vision more explicitly before we can give it the > appropriate consideration. Once the vision statement is settled, I'll > use my agenda-making powers to push discussion on your proposal. :-) Thinking a bit more... how about adding "inclusive, welcoming, and encourage experimentation _in a collaborative way_"? I'd say I know other communities which would encourage experimentation even further, but what I always valued in Fedora is that we are not just experimenting, we keep bringing the results of those experiments back together. > > And I prefer to see Fedora's mission not to try and take over the world, but to fill in this gap, based on previous successful experience over many years, but also together with finding new ways, new workflows and even new definitions for it. > > > I totally agree. I think I can speak for the rest of the Council > members and say they all agree, too. We have a broad vision of the > world, but our goal is to focus on a narrow part of the execution. > -- Aleksandra Fedorova bookwar _______________________________________________ council-discuss mailing list -- council-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to council-discuss-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/council-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
