I'd like to apologize to you for being rude, you did help me. The looming threat of systemd taking over debian, my distro of choice, and being forced on us all has caused my mood to be sour this past week or more. I don't like drastic change, I don't like all-encompassing solutions (unless we're talking about a videogame: in that case the more possibilities the better! (yay nethack)), I don't like being told that I either get with the new program or I should be fired, so on and so forth, or that old people are worthless and things that worked for 40 years suddenly need to change. Thank you for your help. -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 2/1/14, Beojan Stanislaus <beojan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Subject: Re: OSS emulation doesn't allow mixing. To: "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx> Date: Saturday, February 1, 2014, 2:33 PM Can you please refrain from being so rude. For some reason I felt it would be a good idea to help you with the problem you had, but you seem more interested in arguing, and rudely dismissing objections. I was simply pointing out that the write to a file method doesn't naturally extend to mixing sound because most file writes should block. Also, alsa has been around for so long that I highly doubt Linus or any other core developer feels the way you do. On Feb 1, 2014 10:26 PM, "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: The version of /dev/dsp? What the fuck are you smoking, idiot. Also your argument is inapplicable. The BSDs do it the correct way that makes sence. /dev/dsp mixes. You can send your data to that "file" and everything works. See, computer files are a metaphor, a convenient way of thinking of things. They do not actually exist. Inodes exist, table look ups exist. Files do not, until you print them out. -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 2/1/14, Beojan Stanislaus <beojan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Subject: Re: OSS emulation doesn't allow mixing. To: "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx>, alsa-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Saturday, February 1, 2014, 1:54 PM And writing to a file should block other applications from writing to the same file at the same time. Otherwise how do you know which version of the file is correct. On Feb 1, 2014 9:50 PM, "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: The unix way is that "everything is a file". /dev/dsp follows this idea. You write your output to the file, and there you go. The BSDs follow this. It's thought of the "OSS" way because OSS got there first and got to be the DigitalSignalProcessor , rather than some other pack of drivers. When Alsa is running, IT should be /dev/dsp .Not some hack to perfectly emulate the old OSS. There is no reason why /dev/dsp shouldn't go through dmix when alsa is being used. It is a design decision to make /dev/dsp look bad and depreciated. What I think should be the case does matter a little bit. What my friend thought should be the case does matter a little bit. So on and so on. /dev/dsp should just work with the default. And if it doesn't there should be a way to configure it as such, there is not. It is absolute bullshit that /dev/dsp doe not mix. Bullshit. It's been bullshit for 10 years. Windows and Mac have had nonblocking sound forever, before linux. -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 2/1/14, Beojan Stanislaus <beojan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Subject: Re: OSS emulation doesn't allow mixing. To: "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx>, alsa-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Saturday, February 1, 2014, 1:39 PM What you think should be the case doesn't really matter. The difference between Linux and other *nix systems is that generally they use OSS as they're standard sound framework, while Linux users alsa. If the applications you use require OSS you are free to use OSS on your installation, but expecting Linux to change its sound framework to accommodate a small number of people, for whom workarounds are available, is no more sensible than expecting windows out OS X to change they're sound frameworks to accommodate a few people. For most people, alsa is working perfectly well, and oss emulation is not necessary because most people do not use old applications that require sound. On Feb 1, 2014 9:23 PM, "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Thanks for the tip. I remember using that years and years ago, It looks like it would work. It's a shame that there isn't a way to configure alsa to do something like that by default. A friend of mine quit using linux and went to mac because of these sound issues. He had used it for a few years but then gave up. It doesn't make any sense at all to not have mixing for /dev/dsp All the other unixes do. Alsa should follow them rather than the incomplete intentionally hobbled version of OSS that existed in the past. /dev/dsp did auto-mix in the commercial verisions of OSS back then. The opensource version was hobbled to get people to buy a commercial license. -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 2/1/14, Beojan Stanislaus <beojan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Subject: Re: OSS emulation doesn't allow mixing. To: "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx> Date: Saturday, February 1, 2014, 2:50 AM Have you considered using aoss? See the oss emulation page on the alsa wiki. On Feb 1, 2014 10:46 AM, "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Alsa seems to have mixing on the alsa level, like any respectable unix sound implementation. I open mutiple programs that use sound, they all work together fine. Untill I open an old program. The BSDs have always have sound mixing in OSS and anything else. Alsa should have such too. -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 1/31/14, Bill Unruh <unruh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Subject: Re: OSS emulation doesn't allow mixing. To: "Beojan Stanislaus" <beojan@xxxxxxxxx> Cc: alsa-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Friday, January 31, 2014, 9:11 AM On Fri, 31 Jan 2014, Beojan Stanislaus wrote: > I am not a developer, just a user who was shocked by the tone of your > email. However I highly doubt that oss will be included in the kernel > again. This its because most applications on Linux have been written using > alsa, sand it appears oss hasn't been updated sine 2008. The original oss has not, whic his what alsa emulated because it was the dominant sound platform at the time. OSS however was being developed by a company, and AFAIK it has continued developing it. Note that ALSA also does have mixing on the alsa level. There are layers (jack, pulseaudio,....) above alsa which can be used for mixing, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply import a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk _______________________________________________ Alsa-user mailing list Alsa-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-user ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key security issues and trends. 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