Re: OSS emulation doesn't allow mixing.

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Fine, I'll not be rude.

In the context of dsp, the file should not be lockable (it should silently "fail": ie even if a program thinks it locked that virtual file it did not, the program shouldn't be informed of this as it might itself fail if it failed to "lock" the file).

/dev/dsp should exist as an "elegant" "unix like" way of dumping sound out of whatever /dev/dsp is set up to be (which would be setable in the /etc/ alsa sound config file).
It would mix like any other virtual alsa device.

Thank you for telling me of aoss.

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 2/1/14, Beojan Stanislaus <beojan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

 Subject: Re:  OSS emulation doesn't allow mixing.
 To: "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx>
 Date: Saturday, February 1, 2014, 2:33 PM
 
 Can you please refrain from
 being so rude. For some reason I felt it would be a good
 idea to help you with the problem you had, but you seem more
 interested in arguing, and rudely dismissing objections. I
 was simply pointing out that the write to a file method
 doesn't naturally extend to mixing sound because most
 file writes should block.
 
 Also, alsa has been around for so long that I
 highly doubt Linus or any other core developer feels the way
 you do.
 
 
 On Feb 1, 2014 10:26
 PM, "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx>
 wrote:
 
 The version of /dev/dsp?
 
 What the fuck are you smoking, idiot.
 
 Also your argument is inapplicable.
 
 
 
 The BSDs do it the correct way that makes sence.
 
 /dev/dsp mixes. You can send your data to that
 "file" and everything works.
 
 
 
 See, computer files are a metaphor, a convenient way of
 thinking of things.
 
 They do not actually exist. Inodes exist, table look ups
 exist. Files do not, until you print them out.
 
 
 
 
 
 --------------------------------------------
 
 On Sat, 2/1/14, Beojan Stanislaus <beojan@xxxxxxxxx>
 wrote:
 
 
 
  Subject: Re:  OSS emulation doesn't allow
 mixing.
 
  To: "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx>,
 alsa-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
  Date: Saturday, February 1, 2014, 1:54 PM
 
 
 
  And writing to a file should
 
  block other applications from writing to the same file at
 
  the same time. Otherwise how do you know which version of
 
  the file is correct.
 
  On Feb 1, 2014 9:50
 
  PM, "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx>
 
  wrote:
 
 
 
  The unix way is that "everything is a file".
 
  /dev/dsp follows this idea.
 
 
 
  You write your output to the file, and there you go.
 
 
 
  The BSDs follow this. It's thought of the
 
  "OSS" way because OSS got there first
 
 
 
  and got to be the DigitalSignalProcessor , rather than
 some
 
  other
 
 
 
  pack of drivers.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  When Alsa is running, IT should be /dev/dsp .Not some
 hack
 
  to
 
 
 
  perfectly emulate the old OSS. There is no reason why
 
  /dev/dsp shouldn't
 
 
 
  go through dmix when alsa is being used. It is a design
 
  decision
 
 
 
  to make /dev/dsp look bad and depreciated.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  What I think should be the case does matter a little bit.
 
 
 
  What my friend thought should be the case does matter a
 
  little bit.
 
 
 
  So on and so on. /dev/dsp should just work with the
 
  default.
 
 
 
  And if it doesn't there should be a way to configure
 it
 
  as such, there is not.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  It is absolute bullshit that /dev/dsp doe not mix.
 Bullshit.
 
  It's been bullshit for
 
 
 
  10 years.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Windows and Mac have had nonblocking sound forever,
 before
 
  linux.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  --------------------------------------------
 
 
 
  On Sat, 2/1/14, Beojan Stanislaus <beojan@xxxxxxxxx>
 
  wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   Subject: Re:  OSS emulation doesn't
 allow
 
  mixing.
 
 
 
   To: "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx>,
 
  alsa-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
 
 
   Date: Saturday, February 1, 2014, 1:39 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   What you think should be the
 
 
 
   case doesn't really matter. The difference between
 
  Linux
 
 
 
   and other *nix systems is that generally they use OSS
 as
 
 
 
   they're standard sound framework, while Linux users
 
 
 
   alsa. If the applications you use require OSS you are
 
  free
 
 
 
   to use OSS on your installation, but expecting Linux to
 
 
 
   change its sound framework to accommodate a small
 number
 
  of
 
 
 
   people, for whom workarounds are available, is no more
 
 
 
   sensible than expecting windows out OS X to change
 
 
 
   they're sound frameworks to accommodate a few
 people.
 
 
 
   For most people, alsa is working perfectly well, and
 oss
 
 
 
   emulation is not necessary because most people do not
 use
 
 
 
   old applications that require sound.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   On Feb 1, 2014 9:23
 
 
 
   PM, "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx>
 
 
 
   wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   Thanks for the tip.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   I remember using that years and years ago, It looks
 like
 
  it
 
 
 
   would work.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   It's a shame that there isn't a way to
 configure
 
 
 
   alsa to do something like that by default.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   A friend of mine quit using linux and went to mac
 because
 
  of
 
 
 
   these sound issues.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   He had used it for a few years but then gave up.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   It doesn't make any sense at all to not have mixing
 
  for
 
 
 
   /dev/dsp
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   All the other unixes do. Alsa should follow them rather
 
  than
 
 
 
   the incomplete
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   intentionally hobbled version of OSS that existed in
 the
 
 
 
   past.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   /dev/dsp did auto-mix in the commercial verisions of
 OSS
 
 
 
   back then.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   The opensource version was hobbled to get people to buy
 a
 
 
 
   commercial license.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   --------------------------------------------
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   On Sat, 2/1/14, Beojan Stanislaus <beojan@xxxxxxxxx>
 
 
 
   wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    Subject: Re:  OSS emulation doesn't
 
  allow
 
 
 
   mixing.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    To: "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    Date: Saturday, February 1, 2014, 2:50 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    Have you considered using aoss?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    See the oss emulation page on the alsa wiki.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    On Feb 1, 2014 10:46
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    AM, "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    Alsa seems to have mixing on the alsa level, like any
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    respectable unix sound implementation.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    I open mutiple programs that use sound, they all work
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    together fine.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    Untill I open an old program.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    The BSDs have always have sound mixing in OSS and
 
 
 
   anything
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    else.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    Alsa should have such too.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    --------------------------------------------
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    On Fri, 1/31/14, Bill Unruh <unruh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     Subject: Re:  OSS emulation doesn't
 
 
 
   allow
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    mixing.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     To: "Beojan Stanislaus" <beojan@xxxxxxxxx>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     Cc: alsa-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     Date: Friday, January 31, 2014, 9:11 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     On Fri, 31 Jan 2014, Beojan
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     Stanislaus wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     > I am not a developer, just a user who was
 
  shocked
 
 
 
   by
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     the tone of your
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     > email. However I highly doubt that oss will be
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    included
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     in the kernel
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     > again. This its because most applications on
 
  Linux
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    have
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     been written using
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     > alsa, sand it appears oss hasn't been
 
  updated
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    sine
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     2008.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     The original oss has not, whic his what alsa
 emulated
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     because it was the
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     dominant sound platform at the time. OSS however
 was
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
    being
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     developed by a
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     company, and AFAIK it has continued developing it.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     Note that ALSA also does have mixing on the alsa
 
  level.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     There are layers
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     (jack, pulseaudio,....) above alsa which can be
 used
 
 
 
   for
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     mixing, etc.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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