Le Sat, 1 Feb 2014 16:40:15 -0800 (PST), ChaosEsque Team <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx> a écrit : > I'd like to apologize to you for being rude, you did help me. > > The looming threat of systemd taking over debian, my distro of > choice, The problem with systemd at that time is Gnome. You can install Gnome without systemd, but you will lose some functionalities. With the last gnome version, I am not even sure if it will start without systemd. That imply for a binary distribution, the choice is simple: - go the easy way and chip gnome with systemd - go the hard way and install gnome without systemd - don't chip gnome It is one of the reason why I prefer binary distributions like gentoo, you are free to install and use whatever init system you want, and if it make gnome non installable, it's your choice. Another issue is that systemd is an alpha quality software, and they are pushing it like if it was well tested and stable, which is not the case, and will not be possible before they are done with the cgroups rework into the kernel, in at least one year or maybe more... Anyway, systemd is already a kitchen sink which is growing far behind an init system, and it implement policy instead of implementing a way to implement policies. All this make it already a bigger problem than the one it was intended to solve. Time will tell us if it will end like hal or not. > and being forced on us all has caused my mood to be sour this past > week or more. I don't like drastic change, I don't like > all-encompassing solutions (unless we're talking about a videogame: > in that case the more possibilities the better! (yay nethack)), I > don't like being told that I either get with the new program or I > should be fired, so on and so forth, or that old people are worthless > and things that worked for 40 years suddenly need to change. > > Thank you for your help. > > > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 2/1/14, Beojan Stanislaus <beojan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Subject: Re: OSS emulation doesn't allow mixing. > To: "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx> > Date: Saturday, February 1, 2014, 2:33 PM > > Can you please refrain from > being so rude. For some reason I felt it would be a good > idea to help you with the problem you had, but you seem more > interested in arguing, and rudely dismissing objections. I > was simply pointing out that the write to a file method > doesn't naturally extend to mixing sound because most > file writes should block. > > Also, alsa has been around for so long that I > highly doubt Linus or any other core developer feels the way > you do. > > > On Feb 1, 2014 10:26 > PM, "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > > The version of /dev/dsp? > > What the fuck are you smoking, idiot. > > Also your argument is inapplicable. > > > > The BSDs do it the correct way that makes sence. > > /dev/dsp mixes. You can send your data to that > "file" and everything works. > > > > See, computer files are a metaphor, a convenient way of > thinking of things. > > They do not actually exist. Inodes exist, table look ups > exist. Files do not, until you print them out. > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Sat, 2/1/14, Beojan Stanislaus <beojan@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: OSS emulation doesn't allow > mixing. > > To: "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx>, > alsa-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Date: Saturday, February 1, 2014, 1:54 PM > > > > And writing to a file should > > block other applications from writing to the same file at > > the same time. Otherwise how do you know which version of > > the file is correct. > > On Feb 1, 2014 9:50 > > PM, "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx> > > wrote: > > > > The unix way is that "everything is a file". > > /dev/dsp follows this idea. > > > > You write your output to the file, and there you go. > > > > The BSDs follow this. It's thought of the > > "OSS" way because OSS got there first > > > > and got to be the DigitalSignalProcessor , rather than > some > > other > > > > pack of drivers. > > > > > > > > When Alsa is running, IT should be /dev/dsp .Not some > hack > > to > > > > perfectly emulate the old OSS. There is no reason why > > /dev/dsp shouldn't > > > > go through dmix when alsa is being used. It is a design > > decision > > > > to make /dev/dsp look bad and depreciated. > > > > > > > > What I think should be the case does matter a little bit. > > > > What my friend thought should be the case does matter a > > little bit. > > > > So on and so on. /dev/dsp should just work with the > > default. > > > > And if it doesn't there should be a way to configure > it > > as such, there is not. > > > > > > > > It is absolute bullshit that /dev/dsp doe not mix. > Bullshit. > > It's been bullshit for > > > > 10 years. > > > > > > > > Windows and Mac have had nonblocking sound forever, > before > > linux. > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > On Sat, 2/1/14, Beojan Stanislaus <beojan@xxxxxxxxx> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: OSS emulation doesn't > allow > > mixing. > > > > To: "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx>, > > alsa-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > Date: Saturday, February 1, 2014, 1:39 PM > > > > > > > > What you think should be the > > > > case doesn't really matter. The difference between > > Linux > > > > and other *nix systems is that generally they use OSS > as > > > > they're standard sound framework, while Linux users > > > > alsa. If the applications you use require OSS you are > > free > > > > to use OSS on your installation, but expecting Linux to > > > > change its sound framework to accommodate a small > number > > of > > > > people, for whom workarounds are available, is no more > > > > sensible than expecting windows out OS X to change > > > > they're sound frameworks to accommodate a few > people. > > > > For most people, alsa is working perfectly well, and > oss > > > > emulation is not necessary because most people do not > use > > > > old applications that require sound. > > > > > > > > On Feb 1, 2014 9:23 > > > > PM, "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks for the tip. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember using that years and years ago, It looks > like > > it > > > > would work. > > > > > > > > It's a shame that there isn't a way to > configure > > > > alsa to do something like that by default. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A friend of mine quit using linux and went to mac > because > > of > > > > these sound issues. > > > > > > > > He had used it for a few years but then gave up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't make any sense at all to not have mixing > > for > > > > /dev/dsp > > > > > > > > All the other unixes do. Alsa should follow them rather > > than > > > > the incomplete > > > > > > > > intentionally hobbled version of OSS that existed in > the > > > > past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /dev/dsp did auto-mix in the commercial verisions of > OSS > > > > back then. > > > > > > > > The opensource version was hobbled to get people to buy > a > > > > commercial license. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2/1/14, Beojan Stanislaus <beojan@xxxxxxxxx> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: OSS emulation doesn't > > allow > > > > mixing. > > > > > > > > To: "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx> > > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, February 1, 2014, 2:50 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you considered using aoss? > > > > > > > > See the oss emulation page on the alsa wiki. > > > > > > > > On Feb 1, 2014 10:46 > > > > > > > > AM, "ChaosEsque Team" <chaosesqueteam@xxxxxxxxx> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alsa seems to have mixing on the alsa level, like any > > > > > > > > respectable unix sound implementation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I open mutiple programs that use sound, they all work > > > > > > > > together fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Untill I open an old program. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The BSDs have always have sound mixing in OSS and > > > > anything > > > > > > > > else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alsa should have such too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 1/31/14, Bill Unruh <unruh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: OSS emulation doesn't > > > > allow > > > > > > > > mixing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: "Beojan Stanislaus" <beojan@xxxxxxxxx> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: alsa-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 31, 2014, 9:11 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 31 Jan 2014, Beojan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stanislaus wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not a developer, just a user who was > > shocked > > > > by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the tone of your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > email. However I highly doubt that oss will be > > > > > > > > included > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the kernel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again. This its because most applications on > > Linux > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > been written using > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alsa, sand it appears oss hasn't been > > updated > > > > > > > > sine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2008. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The original oss has not, whic his what alsa > emulated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because it was the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dominant sound platform at the time. OSS however > was > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > developed by a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > company, and AFAIK it has continued developing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that ALSA also does have mixing on the alsa > > level. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are layers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (jack, pulseaudio,....) above alsa which can be > used > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mixing, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network > data > > > > > > > > into > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > actionable > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > security intelligence. It gives you real-time > visual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > feedback on key > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > security issues and trends. Skip the complicated > > > > setup > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - simply import > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alsa-user mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alsa-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-user > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable > security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key > security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply > import a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Alsa-user mailing list > Alsa-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-user ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply import a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk _______________________________________________ Alsa-user mailing list Alsa-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-user
