Re: X config fails on Titan P4 with AGP video card (nVidiaGeFarce2 MMX)

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Hi

You could try getting the NVidia drivers from their website. They also
have a good faq on how to install them.

Are you in Adelaide or close by? If you are and it's not working by the
weekend email me Friday night and I should be able to come and look at
it over the weekend.

Robyn

On Tue, 2002-06-25 at 15:18, David Johnston wrote:
> Hi,
> I have dumped the log files where I can relay them under the OS I have email
> operational in, so I will copy them here. It looks like there are 2 problems
> to sort out. One is that a driver is missing. The other is that the video
> adapter isnt detected properly. That probably means I have to find and
> download a newer version of either Xfree86 or Linux (I scored RedHat 7.0 at
> my favourite price == $0) or both.
> 
> I think the (im)pertinent messages are -
> (EE) Failed to load module "v4l" (module does not exist, 0)
> and
> (EE) No devices detected.
> 
> I could get around the first one by commenting out the "LOAD v4l" in the
> config file, and things seemed to go similarly and still come up with the
> second message, which I think is the crux of the problem.
> 
> I dont know enough about hardware to know whether the AGP video card is
> connected through PCI, or reported in the autodetect that way, but I dont
> have a PCI video card. Do later versions of XFree86 have support for such
> hardware configs ? i.e. I want to know that before I go downloading Gigs of
> stuff.
> Any help or advice, please ?
> Info files follow -
> 
> In the hopes that someone can advise me, here are the files -
> 
> Info from the Xconfig PCI scan -
> ================================
> 
> Probing for PCI devices (Bus:Device:Function)
> 
> (0:0:0) SiS unknown card (0x0650) using an unknown chip (DeviceId 0x0650)
> from SiS
> (0:1:0) SiS SG86C201
> (0:2:0) unknown chip (DeviceId 0x0008) from SiS
> (0:2:2) SiS unknown card (0x7001) using an unknown chip (DeviceId 0x7001)
> from SiS
> (0:2:3) SiS unknown card (0x7001) using an unknown chip (DeviceId 0x7001)
> from SiS
> (0:2:5) SiS unknown card (0x5513) using an unknown chip (DeviceId 0x5513)
> from SiS
> (0:2:7) unknown card (0x1458/0xa002) using an unknown chip (DeviceId 0x7012)
> from SiS
> (0:13:0) unknown card (0x11c1/0x044c) using an unknown
> chipset(0x11c1/0x044c)
> (0:16:0) Realtek Generic using a Realtek RTL8139 10/100 Ethernet
> (1:0:0) unknown chip (DeviceId 0x0110) from NVidia
> 
> 
> info from Xconfig version query -
> ================================
> XFree86 Version 4.0.1a / X Window System
> (protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6400)
> Release Date: 2 August 2000
>  If the server is older than 6-12 months, or if your card is newer
>  than the above date, look for a newer version before reporting
>  problems.  (see http://www.XFree86.Org/FAQ)
> Operating System: Linux 2.2.5-22smp i686 [ELF]
> Module Loader present
> 
> 
> The linux version actually asserts that its 2.2.16-22, (and I booted the
> version without the smp at the end)
> 
> 
> Info from the XFree log -
> ================================
> XFree86 Version 4.0.1a / X Window System
> (protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6400)
> Release Date: 2 August 2000
>  If the server is older than 6-12 months, or if your card is newer
>  than the above date, look for a newer version before reporting
>  problems.  (see http://www.XFree86.Org/FAQ)
> Operating System: Linux 2.2.5-22smp i686 [ELF]
> Module Loader present
> (==) Log file: "/var/log/XFree86.0.log", Time: Tue Jun 25 00:52:54 2002
> (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/XF86Config-4"
> Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting,
>          (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
>          (WW) warning, (EE) error, (??) unknown.
> (==) ServerLayout "XFree86 Configured"
> (**) |-->Screen "Screen0" (0)
> (**) |   |-->Monitor "MEA 1770f"
> (**) |   |-->Device "nVidia Corporation|NV11"
> (**) |-->Input Device "Mouse0"
> (**) |-->Input Device "Keyboard0"
> (**) Option "XkbLayout" "us"
> (**) XKB: layout: "us"
> (**) FontPath set to "unix/:7100"
> (==) RgbPath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb"
> (==) ModulePath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules"
> (--) using VT number 7
> 
> (II) Module ABI versions:
>  XFree86 ANSI C Emulation: 0.1
>  XFree86 Video Driver: 0.2
>  XFree86 XInput driver : 0.1
>  XFree86 Server Extension : 0.1
>  XFree86 Font Renderer : 0.1
> (II) Loader running on linux
> (II) LoadModule: "bitmap"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libbitmap.a
> (II) Module bitmap: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
>  compiled for 4.0.1a, module version = 1.0.0
>  Module class: XFree86 Font Renderer
>  ABI class: XFree86 Font Renderer, version 0.1
> (II) Loading font Bitmap
> (II) LoadModule: "pcidata"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libpcidata.a
> (II) Module pcidata: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
>  compiled for 4.0.1a, module version = 0.1.0
>  ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.2
> (II) PCI: Probing config type using method 1
> (II) PCI: Config type is 1
> (II) PCI: stages = 0x03, oldVal1 = 0x80000070, mode1Res1 = 0x80000000
> (II) PCI: PCI scan (all values are in hex)
> (II) PCI: 00:00:0: chip 1039,0650 card 1039,0650 rev 01 class 06,00,00 hdr
> 80
> (II) PCI: 00:01:0: chip 1039,0001 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,04,00 hdr
> 01
> (II) PCI: 00:02:0: chip 1039,0008 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,01,00 hdr
> 80
> (II) PCI: 00:02:2: chip 1039,7001 card 1039,7001 rev 07 class 0c,03,10 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 00:02:3: chip 1039,7001 card 1039,7001 rev 07 class 0c,03,10 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 00:02:5: chip 1039,5513 card 1039,5513 rev d0 class 01,01,80 hdr
> 80
> (II) PCI: 00:02:7: chip 1039,7012 card 1458,a002 rev a0 class 04,01,00 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 00:0d:0: chip 11c1,044c card 11c1,044c rev 02 class 07,80,00 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 00:10:0: chip 10ec,8139 card 10ec,8139 rev 10 class 02,00,00 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 01:00:0: chip 10de,0110 card 0000,0000 rev b2 class 03,00,00 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: End of PCI scan
> (II) LoadModule: "scanpci"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libscanpci.a
> (II) Module scanpci: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
>  compiled for 4.0.1a, module version = 0.1.0
>  ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.2
> (II) UnloadModule: "scanpci"
> (II) Unloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libscanpci.a
> (II) Bus 1: bridge is at (0:1:0), (0,1,1), BCTRL: 0x0e (VGA_EN is set)
> (II) Bus 1 I/O range:
> (II) Bus 1 non-prefetchable memory range:
>  [0] -1 0xec000000 - 0xedffffff (0x2000000) MX[B]
> (II) Bus 1 prefetchable memory range:
>  [0] -1 0xe0000000 - 0xe7ffffff (0x8000000) MX[B]
> (--) PCI:*(1:0:0) NVidia unknown chipset (0x0110) rev 178, Mem @
> 0xec000000/24, 0xe0000000/27
> (II) Addressable bus resource ranges are
>  [0] -1 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B]
>  [1] -1 0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B]
> (II) OS-reported resource ranges:
>  [0] -1 0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B)
>  [1] -1 0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B)
>  [2] -1 0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B]
>  [3] -1 0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B]
>  [4] -1 0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B]
>  [5] -1 0x00000000 - 0x000001ff (0x200) IX[B]E
> (II) Active PCI resource ranges:
>  [0] -1 0xee003000 - 0xee003fff (0x1000) MX[B]E
>  [1] -1 0xee002000 - 0xee003fff (0x2000) MX[B]E
>  [2] -1 0xee001000 - 0xee001fff (0x1000) MX[B]E
>  [3] -1 0xee000000 - 0xefffffff (0x2000000) MX[B]E
>  [4] -1 0xe8000000 - 0xebffffff (0x4000000) MX[B]E
>  [5] -1 0xe0000000 - 0xe7ffffff (0x8000000) MX[B](B)
>  [6] -1 0xec000000 - 0xecffffff (0x1000000) MX[B](B)
>  [7] -1 0x0000e000 - 0x0000e0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
>  [8] -1 0x0000dc00 - 0x0000dcff (0x100) IX[B]E
>  [9] -1 0x0000d800 - 0x0000d8ff (0x100) IX[B]E
>  [10] -1 0x0000d400 - 0x0000d4ff (0x100) IX[B]E
>  [11] -1 0x0000d000 - 0x0000d0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
>  [12] -1 0x00004000 - 0x000040ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> (II) PCI Memory resource overlap reduced 0xee002000 from 0xee003fff to
> 0xee002fff
> (II) PCI Memory resource overlap reduced 0xee000000 from 0xefffffff to
> 0xee000fff
> (II) Active PCI resource ranges after removing overlaps:
>  [0] -1 0xee003000 - 0xee003fff (0x1000) MX[B]E
>  [1] -1 0xee002000 - 0xee002fff (0x1000) MX[B]E
>  [2] -1 0xee001000 - 0xee001fff (0x1000) MX[B]E
>  [3] -1 0xee000000 - 0xee000fff (0x1000) MX[B]E
>  [4] -1 0xe8000000 - 0xebffffff (0x4000000) MX[B]E
>  [5] -1 0xe0000000 - 0xe7ffffff (0x8000000) MX[B](B)
>  [6] -1 0xec000000 - 0xecffffff (0x1000000) MX[B](B)
>  [7] -1 0x0000e000 - 0x0000e0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
>  [8] -1 0x0000dc00 - 0x0000dcff (0x100) IX[B]E
>  [9] -1 0x0000d800 - 0x0000d8ff (0x100) IX[B]E
>  [10] -1 0x0000d400 - 0x0000d4ff (0x100) IX[B]E
>  [11] -1 0x0000d000 - 0x0000d0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
>  [12] -1 0x00004000 - 0x000040ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> (II) OS-reported resource ranges after removing overlaps with PCI:
>  [0] -1 0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B)
>  [1] -1 0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B)
>  [2] -1 0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B]
>  [3] -1 0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B]
>  [4] -1 0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B]
>  [5] -1 0x00000000 - 0x000001ff (0x200) IX[B]E
> (II) All system resource ranges:
>  [0] -1 0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B)
>  [1] -1 0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B)
>  [2] -1 0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B]
>  [3] -1 0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B]
>  [4] -1 0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B]
>  [5] -1 0xee003000 - 0xee003fff (0x1000) MX[B]E
>  [6] -1 0xee002000 - 0xee002fff (0x1000) MX[B]E
>  [7] -1 0xee001000 - 0xee001fff (0x1000) MX[B]E
>  [8] -1 0xee000000 - 0xee000fff (0x1000) MX[B]E
>  [9] -1 0xe8000000 - 0xebffffff (0x4000000) MX[B]E
>  [10] -1 0xe0000000 - 0xe7ffffff (0x8000000) MX[B](B)
>  [11] -1 0xec000000 - 0xecffffff (0x1000000) MX[B](B)
>  [12] -1 0x00000000 - 0x000001ff (0x200) IX[B]E
>  [13] -1 0x0000e000 - 0x0000e0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
>  [14] -1 0x0000dc00 - 0x0000dcff (0x100) IX[B]E
>  [15] -1 0x0000d800 - 0x0000d8ff (0x100) IX[B]E
>  [16] -1 0x0000d400 - 0x0000d4ff (0x100) IX[B]E
>  [17] -1 0x0000d000 - 0x0000d0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
>  [18] -1 0x00004000 - 0x000040ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> (II) LoadModule: "GLcore"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libGLcore.a
> (II) Module GLcore: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
>  compiled for 4.0.1a, module version = 1.0.0
>  ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) LoadModule: "dbe"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libdbe.a
> (II) Module dbe: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
>  compiled for 4.0.1a, module version = 1.0.0
>  Module class: XFree86 Server Extension
>  ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) Loading extension DOUBLE-BUFFER
> (II) LoadModule: "dri"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libdri.a
> (II) Module dri: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
>  compiled for 4.0.1a, module version = 1.0.0
>  ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) Loading extension XFree86-DRI
> (II) Loading sub module "drm"
> (II) LoadModule: "drm"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/linux/libdrm.a
> (II) Module drm: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
>  compiled for 4.0.1a, module version = 1.0.0
>  ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) LoadModule: "extmod"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libextmod.a
> (II) Module extmod: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
>  compiled for 4.0.1a, module version = 1.0.0
>  Module class: XFree86 Server Extension
>  ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) Loading extension SHAPE
> (II) Loading extension MIT-SUNDRY-NONSTANDARD
> (II) Loading extension BIG-REQUESTS
> (II) Loading extension SYNC
> (II) Loading extension MIT-SCREEN-SAVER
> (II) Loading extension XC-MISC
> (II) Loading extension XFree86-VidModeExtension
> (II) Loading extension XFree86-Misc
> (II) Loading extension XFree86-DGA
> (II) Loading extension DPMS
> (II) Loading extension FontCache
> (II) Loading extension TOG-CUP
> (II) Loading extension Extended-Visual-Information
> (II) Loading extension XVideo
> (II) LoadModule: "glx"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libglx.a
> (II) Module glx: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
>  compiled for 4.0.1a, module version = 1.0.0
>  ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) Loading extension GLX
> (II) Loading sub module "GLcore"
> (II) LoadModule: "GLcore"
> (II) Reloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libGLcore.a
> (II) LoadModule: "pex5"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libpex5.a
> (II) Module pex5: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
>  compiled for 4.0.1a, module version = 1.0.0
>  Module class: XFree86 Server Extension
>  ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) Loading extension X3D-PEX
> (II) LoadModule: "record"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/librecord.a
> (II) Module record: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
>  compiled for 4.0.1a, module version = 1.13.0
>  Module class: XFree86 Server Extension
>  ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) Loading extension RECORD
> (II) LoadModule: "xie"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libxie.a
> (II) Module xie: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
>  compiled for 4.0.1a, module version = 1.0.0
>  Module class: XFree86 Server Extension
>  ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) Loading extension XIE
> (II) LoadModule: "v4l"
> (WW) Warning, couldn't open module v4l
> (II) UnloadModule: "v4l"
> (EE) Failed to load module "v4l" (module does not exist, 0)
> (II) LoadModule: "nv"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nv_drv.o
> (II) Module nv: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
>  compiled for 4.0.1a, module version = 1.0.0
>  Module class: XFree86 Video Driver
>  ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.2
> (II) LoadModule: "mouse"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/input/mouse_drv.o
> (II) Module mouse: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
>  compiled for 4.0.1a, module version = 1.0.0
>  Module class: XFree86 XInput Driver
>  ABI class: XFree86 XInput driver, version 0.1
> (II) NV: driver for NVIDIA chipsets: RIVA128, RIVATNT, RIVATNT2,
>  RIVATNT2 (Ultra), RIVATNT2 (Vanta), RIVATNT2 M64,
>  RIVATNT2 (Integrated), GeForce 256, GeForce DDR, Quadro, GeForce 2
> (II) Primary Device is: PCI 01:00:0
> (EE) No devices detected.
> 
> Fatal server error:
> no screens found
> 
> When reporting a problem related to a server crash, please send
> the full server output, not just the last messages.
> This can be found in the log file "/var/log/XFree86.0.log".
> Please reports problems to xfree86@xfree86.org.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recent log file from another directory  (/usr/log/)
> ================================
> (II) Module ABI versions:
>  XFree86 ANSI C Emulation: 0.1
>  XFree86 Video Driver: 0.2
>  XFree86 XInput driver : 0.1
>  XFree86 Server Extension : 0.1
>  XFree86 Font Renderer : 0.1
> (II) Loader running on linux
> (II) LoadModule: "scanpci"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libscanpci.a
> (II) Module scanpci: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
>  compiled for 4.0.1a, module version = 0.1.0
>  ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.2
> (II) PCI: Probing config type using method 1
> (II) PCI: Config type is 1
> (II) PCI: stages = 0x03, oldVal1 = 0x80000070, mode1Res1 = 0x80000000
> (II) PCI: PCI scan (all values are in hex)
> (II) PCI: 00:00:0: chip 1039,0650 card 1039,0650 rev 01 class 06,00,00 hdr
> 80
> (II) PCI: 00:01:0: chip 1039,0001 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,04,00 hdr
> 01
> (II) PCI: 00:02:0: chip 1039,0008 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,01,00 hdr
> 80
> (II) PCI: 00:02:2: chip 1039,7001 card 1039,7001 rev 07 class 0c,03,10 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 00:02:3: chip 1039,7001 card 1039,7001 rev 07 class 0c,03,10 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 00:02:5: chip 1039,5513 card 1039,5513 rev d0 class 01,01,80 hdr
> 80
> (II) PCI: 00:02:7: chip 1039,7012 card 1458,a002 rev a0 class 04,01,00 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 00:0d:0: chip 11c1,044c card 11c1,044c rev 02 class 07,80,00 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 00:10:0: chip 10ec,8139 card 10ec,8139 rev 10 class 02,00,00 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 01:00:0: chip 10de,0110 card 0000,0000 rev b2 class 03,00,00 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: End of PCI scan
> Probing for PCI devices (Bus:Device:Function)
> 
> (0:0:0) SiS unknown card (0x0650) using an unknown chip (DeviceId 0x0650)
> from SiS
> (0:1:0) SiS SG86C201
> (0:2:0) unknown chip (DeviceId 0x0008) from SiS
> (0:2:2) SiS unknown card (0x7001) using an unknown chip (DeviceId 0x7001)
> from SiS
> (0:2:3) SiS unknown card (0x7001) using an unknown chip (DeviceId 0x7001)
> from SiS
> (0:2:5) SiS unknown card (0x5513) using an unknown chip (DeviceId 0x5513)
> from SiS
> (0:2:7) unknown card (0x1458/0xa002) using an unknown chip (DeviceId 0x7012)
> from SiS
> (0:13:0) unknown card (0x11c1/0x044c) using an unknown
> chipset(0x11c1/0x044c)
> (0:16:0) Realtek Generic using a Realtek RTL8139 10/100 Ethernet
> (1:0:0) unknown chip (DeviceId 0x0110) from NVidia
> 
> 
> Looks like this version of the PCI scan cant work out the hardware.
> Does anyone know whether more recent versions of either Linux or XFree86 can
> detect an nVidia card which is in the AGP slot with no PCI video card at all
> on the machine ?
> 
> HELLLLP !!!
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Spandan Bhatt <spandan_bhatt@yahoo.com>
> To: <newbie@XFree86.Org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 7:21 AM
> Subject: Re: X config fails on Titan P4 with AGP video card (nVidia
> GeFarce2 MMX)
> 
> 
> > Also may be you can tell the chip set of video device
> > from whatever OS you are on.
> > BTW just last week I had a similar problem and ppl on
> > this group suggested to use VESA driver which worked
> > for me (its a generic driver). But you need to make
> > sure your X points to 4.2 version of XFree86 for that.
> > --- Jeff Rancier <jeff.rancier@softechnics.com> wrote:
> > > Are you sure that isn't 32 bit vs. 64 bit?
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "David Johnston" <DaveDCJ@bigpond.com>
> > > To: <newbie@XFree86.Org>
> > > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 10:02 AM
> > > Subject: X config fails on Titan P4 with AGP
> > > video card (nVidia
> > > GeFarce2 MMX)
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > > I'm still trawling the net for other info via
> > > non-Linux so cant paste the
> > > > config log here (will copy it to readable drive
> > > and post it next reboot)
> > > but
> > > > meanwhile, does anyone recognise a problem that
> > > looks like this...
> > > > During setup I am offered the configurations of
> > > small up to 32Meg, but I
> > > > have a 64Meg setup, so I take 32 as the max avail
> > > choice and carry on,
> > > then
> > > > when we get to the probe, it fails and gives error
> > > messages.
> > > > When the startup is attempted, I get 2 (EE)
> > > messages about the video card
> > > > not being found (dont recall the exact text) and
> > > it cant start X. I havent
> > > > tried editing the setup files, but I dont think I
> > > am going to get anywhere
> > > > till I get past the auto probe.
> > > > Any advice ?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > David Johnston
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > 
> > > > Newbie@XFree86.Org
> > > > *** To unsubscribe , or change message options,
> > > see:
> > > > http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/newbie
> > >
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