I am finishing up the internet-drafts for labeled ipsec. The ipsec RFCs have been updated and I have a question about how one of the new features in one of the updated rfcs should work with labeled ipsec or MAC networking in general. 1. rfc 4301 - IP Security Architecture introduces and describes a Populate From Packet (PFP) flag on page 23. When creating a new SA, the PFP flag is used to determine whether the value for the selector of the new SA will come from the packet that triggered the SA's creation or from the SPD entry. For example, the source address is a selector. An outbound packet finds an SPD entry, but no SA, so must create an SA. Currently, we take packet's source address and use this as source address when negotiating and creating new SA. However, according to rfc 4301, PFP flag can be set and then used to decide whether newly created SA's source address selector might come from the packet or from the SPD entry. My concern is that security context is described in draft as a selector, thus I need to consider PFP flag. Do we want PFP-flag capability for security context selector? For example, in current selinux policy, ipsec_spd_t:s0 is default SPD entry label. Let's say sshd triggers SA creation with sshd_t:s0. Currently, new SA will be created with sshd_t:s0. However, with PFP capability, new SA being created could have sshd_t:s0 or ipsec_spd_t:s0 depending on what PFP-flag is set to? In the example, to create the SA with ipsec_spd_t seems like a relabel to me. Do we want this to ever happen? At first I thought it could be used to map data to certain labels, that is the label in the SPD entry... but I don't know if this is a desired thing in MAC networking? Do we want to disable using PFP flag for security context and always take label from socket triggering SA creation as done currently? I have another question: 2. Security Gateways in MAC networking. In obsoleted rfc 2401 -IP Security Architecture, section 8.6 described an MLS security gateway using IPsec as: "a security gateway acting as an outbound proxy, creating SAs for MLS systems that originate packets forwarded by the gateway. These MLS systems may explicitly label the packets to be forwarded, or the whole originating network may have sensitivity characteristics associated with it. The security gateway MUST create and use appropriate SAs for AH, ESP or both, to protect such traffic it forwards. Similarly such a gateway SHOULD accept and process inbound AH and/or ESP packets and forward appropriately, using explicit packet labeling, or relying on the sensitivity characteristics of the destination network." All mention of MLS networking as in rfc 2401 was left out in rfc 4301. So I want to reintroduce it as MAC networking instead. Do we want to consider labeled ipsec for security gateways in MAC networking? There would be 2 cases that I can think of. 1. machines behind the security gateway that explicitly label the packets (CIPSO). This is stated above. In this case above text is still applicable. 2. The whole originating network has a security context associated with it. In this case, packets from machines behind the security gateway are not explicitly labeled. These machines send their packets to security security gateway to be forwarded. This incoming interface of the security gateway is labeled. All packets arriving on it (from machines behind the gateway) would be marked with this label. And that would be the label used to negotiate and create the SAs for the packets originating from behind the gateway. Is this acceptable MAC networking for security gateways? Sorry, for the long email. I hope I have been clear, but if not, please let me know. Thanks!! regards, Joy -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.