On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 04:07:11PM +1000, NeilBrown wrote: > On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 21:13:06 -0700 Shaohua Li <shli@xxxxxx> wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 11:22:17AM +1000, NeilBrown wrote: > > > On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 17:07:39 -0700 Shaohua Li <shli@xxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 09:16:53AM +1000, NeilBrown wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 12:49:37 -0700 Shaohua Li <shli@xxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 02:06:41PM +1000, NeilBrown wrote: > > > > > > > On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 20:16:17 -0700 Shaohua Li <shli@xxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't > > > > > > > > understand why you object adding a superblock for cache. The advantage > > > > > > > > is it's self contained. And there is nothing about > > > > > > > > complexity/maintaince, as we can store the most necessary fields into > > > > > > > > the superblock. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because there is precisely 1 number that needs to be stored in the > > > > > > > superblock, and there seems no point having a superblock just to store > > > > > > > one number. > > > > > > > It isn't much extra complexity, but any extra thing is still an extra > > > > > > > thing. > > > > > > > Having the data section of the log device containing just a log is > > > > > > > elegant. Elegant is good. > > > > > > > If we decided that keeping two copies for superblocks was a good idea > > > > > > > (which I think it is, I just haven't created a "v1.3" layout yet), then > > > > > > > re-using the main superblock for the head-of-log pointer would instantly > > > > > > > give us two copies of that as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I need 2 fields to find log head/tail in recovery. Currently > > > > > > cache superblock records checkpoint disk position (log tail) and > > > > > > checkpoint sequence number, which can be used to find log head. Just > > > > > > recording log tail doesn't work well (it might work, for example, > > > > > > zeroing sectors before log head, so we can identify log head. But it's > > > > > > really ugly and not efficient). I only found recovery_offset can be > > > > > > overloaded. Do you have idea other fileds can be overloaded in MD > > > > > > superblock? > > > > > > > > > > If each metadata block contains > > > > > - a magic number > > > > > - a checksum of the block > > > > > - a sequence number > > > > > - a pointer to the "next" metadata block (which is equivalent to > > > > > the size of all described data) > > > > > - a pointer to the tail (oldest active metadata block). > > > > > > > > > > Then given the address of any block in the log you can easily find the > > > > > head: walk the "next" pointers forward until you find a block > > > > > that has the wrong magic or checksum or sequence or previous pointer. > > > > > The last block that was consistent is the head. > > > > > > > > > > You can then find the tail directly, and walk forward processing the > > > > > log. > > > > > > > > > > Efficiency is not really an issue. On a clean shutdown (which should > > > > > be the norm), the md superblock will contain a pointer to the head, and > > > > > the "next" block after that can quickly be determined to be invalid. > > > > > On an unclean shutdown it is expected that we need to do a bit more > > > > > work, and skipping forward along the chain to find the head of the log > > > > > is the least of our worries. > > > > > > > > if superblock records 2 fileds (the log tail and the seq of log tail), metadata > > > > block doesn't need 'a pointer to the tail (oldest active metadata block)'. The > > > > log tail/seq pair can help us find log head easily. Adding a pointer to the > > > > tail in every metadata block is definitionly worse than adding a filed in the > > > > superblock. > > > > > > I don't really follow... maybe we are confusing terms. > > > In my mind, the "head" is where new data gets written and the "tail" is > > > where the oldest data is - though I can see that the reverse could also > > > make sense. > > > > we are in the same page about the terms. > > > Previously you said you wanted to record "checkpoint disk position and > > > checkpoint sequence number" which you also referred to as the "tail". > > > So maybe you mean the "tail" to be the most recent checkpoint? > > > > yes > > > In any case, wouldn't the checkpoint metadata records its own sequence > > > number? So why do you need to start the sequence number in the > > > superblock as well. > > > > The problem is you don't know if the metadata is valid/invalid (or > > checkpointed) according to the sequence number stored in the metadata > > itself. But if we store a sequence number in superblock, comparing the > > sequence numebr in superblock and sequence in metadata let us know if > > the metadata is valid. > > So it basically comes down to: > You think we should store extra information in the superblock to > validate the thing that the superblock points to. > I think we should always have the superblock pointing to something > that is valid. > > > > > > If you record a specific end of the log in the superblock, > > > then you need to update the superblock any time that end moves (don't > > > you?). > > > > we record the tail. recovery will search from the tail > > > If you just record some starting point for a search, then you > > > only need to update the superblock when that location might get > > > over-written soon. > > > > that's what I'm doing. we only update the superblock when the location > > can be reused. > > > > > I think it makes perfect sense for all the metadata blocks in the log > > > to be linked together. Whether they link to the previous or to the > > > first doesn't make a lot of difference. > > > By "first" here, I mean the block that has been in the log for the > > > longest, but still refers to "live" data. > > > > I just don't find how it's useful at all. > > It's not a show-stopper. > However if you keep the backwards links, then the superblock is free to > point to any metadata block anywhere in the log. That means we can let > the pointer in the superblock be updated lazily. The cache module only > needs to force a superblock update if there hasn't been one for any > other reason. superblock never need to be updated frequently. It's only updated when some space will be reused or to make recovery scan less. We don't need the backward link to achieve this. If you check my patch, superblock is updated very rarely. > > > > > > > > Further, how can you handle the case when log winds. For example, initially the log is > > > > ................................ > > > > ^ superblock points to here > > > > then we add meta and wind > > > > |meta n-1|meta n|meta 0|meta 1|.... > > > > ^ superblock points to here > > > > > > > > Next time we reload log, superblock points to a valid meta. recovery will think > > > > this is an unclean shutdown, so we rescan the whole log disk (because all metas > > > > are valid) and apply all the changes to raid array. this is terrible. But if > > > > superblock stores both log tail and seq. we will find the meta 0 sequence > > > > number doesn't match with superblock, recovery stops instantly. > > > > > > There should always be at least one valid metadata block in the log, > > > and the superblock should point to one of those. > > > On restart, it is loaded and the 'next' pointers are followed until you > > > get to the end (most recently written) of the log. You confirm you are > > > still in the log as sequence numbers will be increasing. > > > After a clean shutdown, the 'next' pointer won't lead any where useful. > > > > This is exactly the problem. Just storing tail in superblock can't > > handle the log wind issue efficiently, because we can't know if the > > metadata superblock pointed to is checkpointed or not. So we need > > workaround. Here your workaround is always keeping one valid metadata > > block in the log. If we store both checkpoint and sequence number in > > superblock, we don't need the workaround. > > I don't see that as a work-around. But then I don't really trust > checksums and so would rather that we always write a metadata block > (with FUA or FLUSH) after writing data, and using that to know that the > data is safe. If we did that, it would be natural to always have a > valid metadata block. if you don't trust checksum, how can you make sure the metadata block is valid? > > > > The log will look like: > > initially: > > ............ > > ^super point here, super seq = 0 > > > > we add meta: > > |meta 0|meta 1|... > > ^super point here, super seq = 0 > > > > We do a checkpoint, so space of meta 0 can be reused: > > |meta 0|meta 1|... > > ^super point here, super seq = 1 > > > > if log rewind, we already checkpoint meta x: > > |meta x|meta 1|... > > ^super point here, super seq = x + 1 > > > > it's easy to know meta 1 should be ignored since 1 != x + 1 > > This is the classic log structure implementation. > > > > > From the last metadata block, you work backwards to find the first. > > > Maybe you walk all the way following backwards links. Maybe each > > > metadata block has a link to the earliest block worth looking at. > > > > > > Then you follow the log forward recording every block that is found, > > > and discarding blocks when you find a metadata block which says > > > something can be discarded. Once you have walked all the way from the > > > start to the end (from the earliest block to the most recently written > > > block) you have a complete list of all the live blocks that are in the > > > log. Then they can be written to the RAID. > > > > > > I think you are suggesting that the thing stored in the superblock is > > > the address of the oldest valid block. I don't exactly object to that, > > > though I feel it would require updating the superblock more often > > > than needed. > > No, we only updating superblock in checkpoint. > > hm... what exactly do you mean by "checkpoint" here? > > I imagine there would be more checkpoints than times when the > superblock really needs updating. > > > > > > I don't think you need the seq number though. > > > On a clean shutdown you would write out a metadata with a new seq > > > number and store a pointer to that. > > > On restart, that metadata block is loaded and its sequence number > > > examined. Any other blocks in the log will have a lower sequence number > > > and so will be ignored. > > > > As I said, you can workaround the issue without recording seq number in > > superblock, writing an extra metadata as you proposed for example. But > > recording seq number makes things much easier and cleaner. > > Clearly "cleaner" is in the eye of the beholder. I think it is much > clean for the superblock to point to something that is definitely valid. You object to add a superblock. Actually there is one with your proposal, the 'always valid metadata block' is acting as the role of superblock, since we must read metadata block to find log head. Creating a raid array will need create such block too. In other words, we need do everything a real superblock need to do with your proposal. So why don't we have an explict superblock instead of an implicit superblock? Thanks, Shaohua -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-raid" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
