*bad link in last post http://luvit.io/ -Joseph Moniz On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Joseph Moniz <joseph.moniz@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:56 PM, German Geek <geek.de@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> Maybe stupid question, but is node.php really necessary? If you can program >> PHP and it performs better than node.js, why would you need to have another >> wrapper around things. Why not just program "normal" PHP? > > This is normal PHP in the same sense that node.js is normal > javascript, python-tornado is normal python and ruby-event-machine is > normal ruby. The only difference as stated by micheal was the async > IO. > > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Michael Save > <savetheinternet@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> Also, I kind of doubt you can outperform node.js with standard PHP. > > On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 9:37 AM, Daniel Brown <danbrown@xxxxxxx> wrote: >> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 21:33, Michael Save >> <savetheinternet@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> Because "normal" PHP is not asynchronous. >>> >>> Also, I kind of doubt you can outperform node.js with standard PHP. >> >> Your doubts are indeed well-grounded. Using node.js (indeed, >> V8-based apps in general) are compiled as native machine code, which >> don't require the added overhead of a parser, such as PHP. > > This has been an on the side just for fun project for me mostly and as > such i originally had the same performance assumptions as stated in > this thread. Basically i was writing this "to get familar with php > internals and to understand what goes into designing such a system". > > You can imagine my surprise when i ran bench marks against the example > server against an equivelant node.js http server and the node.php > implementation was able to respond to twice as many requests per > second (14k req/s) then node.js could (7k req/s). Though i would take > this with a grain of salt as the benchmark is largely unfair seeing > how node.js is much more feature complete and hardend from production > use. Never the less, i was absolutely shocked that this completely > unoptomized and memory leaky node.php implementation i hacked together > in one night was able to run circles around node.js in naive > benchmarks. > > So i was absolutely confused to the performance boost with php so i > started poking around asking people in various freenode channels if > they had any hypothesis on why node.php was able to perform against > node.js. > > I stumbled across a similar project to create a node.lua > implemantation called luvit ( http://www.luvit.io ) and it also > boasted the same exact performance boost vs node.js, thats is luvit > was able to do 2x the requests as node.js in the same amount of time. > > From my exploration on nodes 1/2x performance vs node.php and luvit > (node.lua) it turns out that V8 is fast only when it has to stay in JS > mode. The problem with node like systems is the JS to native code > boundary must be crossed several times to perform IO. So nodejs-core > get's some of it's best performance boosts from reducing the amount of > times JS has to call out to C++. The unfortunate detail is that > node.js like systems get their "power" from doing lots of IO and every > IO operation has to call out to C/C++ so node.js performance really > drags around this gotcha in V8. > > I hold out some hope for native PHP performance tough. If some one > were to invest the time into making a solid JIT based interpreter for > PHP i'm fairly confident based on language characteristics and the > performance characteristics associated with them that a PHP-JIT > implementation would be able to leave V8 in the dust. Mostly due to > explicit lexical scoping in PHP that would offset the Hidden-Class > overhead of V8. > > In terms of PHP-JITs Facebook has already done some initial work on > such a VM, they call it, not surprisingly, hip-hop-virtual-machine ( > http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150415177928920 ) and it > already doing almost no optimizations is closer to performance of > compiled PHP via hiphop then it is to interpreted PHP via the de facto > interpreter. > > - Joseph Moniz > > > > With that >> said, compiling PHP (such as with HopHop) would give at least >> comparable performance results. >> >> Still, all in all, I would never discourage someone doing a >> 'node.php' application. While its performance may not be quite as >> good speed-wise, that doesn't mean it can't become more robust, more >> generally-applicable, or even just find niche uses. I've written >> numerous socket servers in PHP for a variety of clients and uses, >> where they made sense (speed of deployment, ease of code-management by >> a number of developers who don't know C, et cetera). I can easily see >> where this could add value. >> >> -- >> </Daniel P. Brown> >> Network Infrastructure Manager >> http://www.php.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
