Nathan Rixham wrote: >>> If we could get that 5% added then PHP would be perfect, not only >>> that but me and the rest of the team at work would be able to make >>> our multi-million pound enterprise projects in PHP instead of java; >>> as would so many others (that can't be a bad thing for PHP) >> >> But why? Why not use Java and J2EE and all that good stuff? I'm not >> much of a java fan myself, but you've got to give credit where credit >> is due. > > well I can give two examples: > Three other PHP Developers and myself spent the best part of a year > creating a large multi-site event management system in PHP; the whole > process was deeply frustrating primarily due to the lack of optional > static typing and there in the lack of a solid ORM; with this small > addition the whole process would have been a 6 month process if that, > and a far more pleasurable experience. I think that's at best an example of someone having chosen the wrong tool. I can easily appreciate the frustration. My own rule-of-thumb - scripts are for small things and rapid prototyping. Once when a script (regardless of language) grows towards 1000 lines, start thinking about writing it in C (or whatever else is appropriate). I know of too many situations where thousands of lines of script code have turned into maintenance nightmares. > Currently 7 other Java developers and myself are building a large > multisite transportation management and ticketing system in Java, this > is a 9 month project with a decent sized and very skilled team; > because of the lack of static typing (and thus the lack of development > tools and frameworks/orms for PHP) we've had to go with Java; TBH the > static typing is only needed on the domain model and the api layer, > the bulk of the business logic in between where the majority of the > work comes in, would be a great deal easier using a mix of procedural > code and dynamic typing. I'd argue that again the development time of > this project could be halfed if it was done in PHP AND if in PHP had > support for optional static typing coupled with a good ORM. First of all - development time is largely irrelevant, Nathan - I think the standard rule is that program lifetime = 25% development time + 75% maintenance time. Second - instead of discussing optional strong typing for PHP, I think you need to look at why your productivity in Java is only half of that of PHP. Your tools for Java development are far more sophisticated, you've got the strong typing you want - what's reducing your productivity? > Further the difference between precompilation and interpretation is v > noticable when it comes to rolling applications out, often in > development you want to run a hlaf built or broken application to see > what happens and check if parts x y and z are good + to test your > infrastructure; when you can't compile and do this testing becuase the > app isn't bug free or completed it's rather limiting. Sometimes unit > tests just don't cover what you need. I agree. You need a full blown test system. That is pretty much the norm in a corporate environment - I've certainly never worked anywhere that didn't have separate test systems. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
