On Wed, 2009-01-14 at 21:17 -0500, Paul M Foster wrote: > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 01:39:02PM -0800, Daevid Vincent wrote: > > > Not to start a Holy War (as these "to framework" or "not to framework" > > debates often turn into), but I personally had a horrible experience with > > using frameworks. I was forced to use Symfony at my last job and it was so > > cumbersome and slow to do even the simplest things. The whole MVC thing > > can be overkill. Plus the learning curve can be quite steep. Then if you > > want to hire other developers to work with you, you have to train them and > > let them ramp up on not only the framework but also your core project too! > > More wasted time. > > > > The pages are significantly slower than straight PHP by orders of > > magnitude: [1]http://paul-m-jones.com/?p=315 > > What a great link! I've never seen this kind of comparison before. HTML > is 70% faster than straight PHP, and the frameworks (even codeigniter) > deliver less than 20% of the performance of straight PHP. It's not a fair comparison. It's like saying here's a bucket of water. I want you to take it across the road using one of the following methods: a) Walking b) Driving a truck c) Flying an airplane Well of course a) wins in this contrived example because the truck requires you to open the door, put the key in the ignition, and start the truck (you may even have to walk to the gas station half a kilometre away first). Similarly for the airplane. However, very few web applications are a walk across the road. Some are... anything complex is not. Now, if I change the problem to something a little more realistic and instead ask that you bring a parcel to John Doe who just happens to live in Slumber Acres 5km outside of town... at the other side of town-- then tell me which is now the best option? Now, moving along... what if the parcel is to go to John Doe's grandmother who lives 4000km away in another country? You see, the study you read is contrived. By the time you are doing anything complex, you are VERY likely to incurr a similar startup cost as many a framework. So... the question is not whether frameworks are a good idea or not, it's what do they offer and how well were they built. Obviously some frameworks have terrible start up conditions and general run-time efficiency. However, they may be more modular in general, allowing you to quickly piece together an alternate mode of transportation rather than inventing your own airplane or car. Others will be quite quick but may not handle everything you throw at them or will require more low level programming to accomplish more complex tasks. And then there's the town fool... the person who wastes everyone's time declaring the sky is falling... or the world is coming to an end... or that frameworks are pointless and everyone should code from cratch in rote PHP. Pick the tool for the job... there are times a quick PHP script is the answer, and there are times when it is not. PHP is itself a framework over C. C is a framework over assembly. Assembly is a framework over machine language. Each of these incurrs a cost, but nobody is suggesting you write a website in assembly. Please DO develop your critical thinking before reading such sites and jumping to conclusions. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
