> -----Original Message----- > From: Aschwin Wesselius [mailto:aschwin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 5:04 PM > To: Andrés Robinet > Cc: php-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: Frameworks > > Andrés Robinet wrote: > > I want a framework I can plug a microphone in, and talk to it, and it > does the > > job for me (really, I need it). But I guess we are far away from that. > > > You need it? And what happens if you won't get it in a life time? > > If you need REAL RAD ("a la Delphi"), use VCL for PHP... you'll still > have to > > write the event handlers (you can't save yourself from coding) and you > will have > > to stick with Codegear (you are of those who pay for software, right?). > > > REAL RAD? Is that an acronym or is that emphasis? But no thanks. If I've > paid around 1000 dollars on software, that would be a bit much. And that > must have been a decade ago. > > If you are looking for a flexible PHP 5 framework, where each component > is more > > or less independent of the others, try the Zend Framework. > > > That's what is on my list of candidates, yes. > > If you want a lot of features bundled into a big and fat box, and you > need PHP 4 > > support, use CakePHP. Even the way you name database tables will be > affected, > > but if you eat a piece of the cake you are likely to want it all anyway. > > > Wait..... PHP 4? I admit that I don't use all the OOP of PHP 5, but > really I don't let myself be forced to use deprecated software if it is > my income. No, I haven't touched PHP 4 like 3,5 years now. > > If you want a flexible and easy to use PHP 4 and PHP 5 framework and you > are > > willing to wait more than six months for each minor release, you can use > > CodeIgniter. > > > Ok, that one is of my list of candidates then. > > If you are rich, you can pay us (the PHP-list members) to build one for > you :D. > > It will be a complete disaster because we'll never agree on the features, > but > > you'll entertain yourself with our discussions for months. > > > I think I keep that in mind when I've become rich and lonely and need > some entertainment. > > If your IQ is greater than 150 you can try writing your own. > > > Is IQ really relevant to being capable of writing your own framework? > Ok, an IQ of 70 won't get you advanced software out of your hands. I've > an IQ between 160 and 170 (lost the score along the path somewhere). But > I couldn't be bothered to write my own framework just to invent some > wheels to have a nice ride. It could be a challenge and might even be > rewarding afterwards, but in the mean while it won't get me anywhere. So > much for RAD and then writing your own framework..... Must be kidding ;-) > > OK, thanks for your input. Some points are really helpful! > > Aschwin Wesselius I'm not kidding about the *REAL RAD* thing. RAD is Rapid Application Development, and I don't think anything can be faster than dragging a button component on a *form-like* window, then double clicking on it, writing *echo "Hello World!"* and hit F9. There you are, you got a *Hello world* in some seconds, no need for special set up, or writing controller/model/view code whatsoever. However, I wouldn't use Delphi for PHP because it's a proprietary thing, it's a fat dog and you must pay some REAL bucks for it. And... as soon as you get more serious with what you want to do, you need to get very close with the code behind the scenes... which means you have to put much more time and effort than you would need for a *standard* MVC framework. Sorry, not something I'm willing to do for a web application. I prefer coding controllers, models and views. That's also why I'm reactive to sniff into Prado or even QCodo (which I think disserves some attention to me, because of the underlying *build system*). Compare that to a ZF component... once you learn it, you can use it wherever you want (generally), even if you are not using ZF for the MVC part (take Zend_Http_Client, Zend_Pdf as examples). Now, take CodeIgniter... I liked it because it had many *out-of-the-box* features and components. Also, some clients still had PHP 4 and I couldn't do anything about it. Dealing with it is fairly easy (don't expect cutting-edge magic out of its components though). I fell in love with rapyd http://www.rapyd.com/ which is based on CodeIgniter and simplifies most backend tasks a bunch. But now, rapyd is discontinued (the CI version at least) and we have kohanaPHP as an alternative (http://kohanaphp.com/). To make it worse, CodeIgniter took several (I think more than 6) months to upgrade from 1.5.4 to 1.6. Why? Because they rely on integrating it with their commercial *Expression Engine* product (and they even stated that in their forums). And the *framework-nightmare* started all over again for me. Wanna know what I'm planning to do? Embrace the Zend Framework, it's solid, it's powerful, it's got a company behind and it's still free. And now that PHP 4 has been discontinued, I have the perfect *excuse* to say NO to whatever project has PHP 4 for hosting... They upgrade their PHP version, or they take our PHP 5 hosting offer, or they can go elsewhere for a quote. PERIOD. You must be very careful what framework you choose if it's critical for your daily work, otherwise you'd better off not picking a framework but building your own *baby* (reinventing the wheel has the advantage of giving you full control over the engineering process... you can build a wheel that sucks, but it is still your wheel and you have full control over it, you know it, and you can make it better). And about IQ, I think I got 142 on a test I did long time ago, the normal range was near 100 (say 90-110 or 80-120, can't remember). I have built some components of my own, and several function libraries and such... I just inducted that at least 150 is a good starting point to be able to *put it all together* in a framework-like fashion, which I couldn't do so far. I wasn't kidding about Robert or Manuel. Knowledge flows in their veins. Robert has a framework of his own and Manuel has the (possibly) biggest directory of stand-alone classes and had developed some *monsters* such as Metabase, long before PDO was known and adopted. Anyway... you will get one thousand opinions about Frameworks, and 90% of them may be correct. Choose the framework you like after playing around with some examples and having an overview of the reference manual (forgot to say, documentation is really important to get you started). Regards, Rob(inet) Andrés Robinet | Lead Developer | BESTPLACE CORPORATION 5100 Bayview Drive 206, Royal Lauderdale Landings, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33308 | TEL 954-607-4296 | FAX 954-337-2695 | Email: info@xxxxxxxxxxxxx | MSN Chat: best@xxxxxxxxxxxxx | SKYPE: bestplace | Web: bestplace.biz | Web: seo-diy.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
