On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Zoltán Németh <znemeth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > 2008. 02. 27, szerda keltezéssel 17.42-kor Aschwin Wesselius ezt írta: > > Nathan Nobbe wrote: > > > i understand designing for simplicity is key, however, things can only > be > > > kept > > > so simple beyond reason. the more something does, the more complex it > is; > > > period. > > > > > > -nathan > > > > > > Nice touch, but what I'm most afraid of is abstraction layers. It is > > good to know what to abstract, but also how it is abstracted and where > > it came from. > > > > Sometimes, abstraction makes it so unbelievable complex, just because of > > the sake of abstraction (or over-engineering). Maybe it's just me, but I > > like things clean and simple. I can't grasp oversight easily. Especially > > when it's someone else's code. > > > > I do acknowledge the need (or purpose) of OOP, but sometimes you can > > make it more clean and simple by getting rid of the clutter. If you > > don't know anymore where the code is that you need to edit, you have to > > read the code over and over again (parsing it in your head to something > > that makes sense). If you have to do this 10, 20 or even 50 times a day > > my head explodes. > > > > I have to deal with spaghetti code from some old code-base every day, it > > frustrates me because I can't get inside the head of the programmer who > > wrote this trash. Nice patterns, nice classes (not so OOP), no > > documentation. It takes to much memory, to much included files (125+), > > to many templates, sometimes a 1000+ queries per page (mad!). > > > > No. Give me procedural code please. I can read that from top to bottom, > > it sticks on 1 flow of the processing. Downside is having some code > > multiple times all over the place (hence an argument for OOP). But that > > saves me time and a huge headache every day. I like it to maintain it > > that way. And maybe the programmer after me has to clean it up too. But > > refactoring procedural code is way easier that refactoring OOP code is > > my opinion. > > > > > > nowadays I work on a project which currently has 413415 lines of php > code in hundreds of files, part of which are generated by the other > part, but at least half of it is coded by us... its well-structured oop, > we know we're using some patterns like mvc, singleton, registry, factory > and there may be several ones we are using without knowing. > now please tell me can you read 413415 lines of code from top to > bottom? ;) > (and before anybody asks, no that number does not include the framework > -symfony- and the orm -propel- we are using, only the propel generated > object classes and the classes generated by our generator and the > classes written by ourselves) > > thanks to its good class structure if we need to modify something we > know which file to open and where to modify, even if that class was > originally the work of someone else in the team. how would you do that > without class structure? if i were going to design a system consisting largely of functions, i would use the same practice i use for designing classes; each function would be concise. that is, if functions became large, eg over 20 - 30 lines (NOTE: this value is obviously not a scientific coefficient) then i would probly try to rethink them. and per organizing the functions, i would group them in files that indicated related functionality. if i were to design a procedural system, i would do the same thing still; except that each file would essentially be 'a function' and the 'parameters' would be the global variables expected by said file. there would be probly some sort of validation script, to ensure required variables were supplied; that one would be included a lot ;) but for me i choose classes; why; (and im not starting another holy war, for real ;)) i started out coding on c++ then to java, now to php; i suppose i never learned, or had any need to learn techniques of building complex systems with functions and/or procedural code. yes, i started out w/ basic back on the ti-86 if you really want to get down to it and i had a lot of gotos in there; w/ lots of 3 letter variable names. some of my programs were a couple thousand lines of that, and i had to have an 'external document' a sheet of looseleaf that would tell me what the variables were all really for. but in the current day and age ill stick w/ the status quo, the momentum, and use classes in my code. thats what makes sense to me, and obviously quite a few other people out there. and yes, i use files w/ functions in them from time to time and occasionally sprinkle in global functions in my applications w/ classes. guess why; its php ;) -nathan
