Re: the colored stones of reality

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Roy wrote:
 The camera doesn't always capture the truth. I was changing the numbering system of my camera and I took a test shot of my dimly lit clothes closet. The original scene was dark with a green plaid shirt visible in the middle. The 18% exposure jpg was bright with colors and looked much better than the real scene thru my eyes.
    In another incident:
    I took some pictures of a purple magenta sky at day break. When looking back over these images the jpgs looked too colorful to me. (the RAW files all looked dull)Since it was a while back I couldn't remember what I thought the original scene looked like. The old adage jumped into my mind close down 1/3 of a stop to "underexpose"  the slide film for the best color. Now I don't know whether these day break jpg images represents the real color or not.
Roy
 
 
my thoughts :
 
With negatives having a great latitude of tones able to be recorded the rule of thumb that worked best was expose for the shadows, develop for the highlights.  the shadows were of course the thin parts of silver on the neg, the highlights were the densest parts - more development meant more density and contrast.
 
For slide/positive/E6 it was expose for the highlights (actually to control the highlights) - as too much light meant the density of the film would be thin - if you exposed for the shadows everything else would be too thin..  
 
There was an exception to this a type of slide film by Polaroid had a very broad range and could capture ranges of tones comparable to negatives but this was an unusual film rarely used mainly because the large range of tones had a very flat curve and captured so much of the tonal range the results looked 'drab'. 
 
Slides /E6 was effectively contrasty - with a very steep curve that dropped shadows to black and highlights to white and if you didn't get the exposure right (or *best*) you risked pushing too much detail into the shadow or the highlight to be lost - this is why I've said shooting jpegs is like shooting E6.  get the exposure right and you've got a good looking finished product ready to go.
 
Negatives with a broader range meant varying your 'post production' stage (the printing) you could tease out a whole range of photos from dark and moody to well exposed with smooth tones to light and breezy by changing which part of the negatives tonal range (curve) you choose to print - and it's why I likened negative to shooting RAW.   You can be off on your exposure by quite a bit and still get very usable prints .
 
HDR changes this - I'd said before I felt HDR was like shooting 2 negs and double exposing or sandwiching negatives during printing - but I never tried doing this printing E6 or projecting E6 slides sandwiched so I can't really say whether it was viable or not - someone else may know?
 
I'd long suspected in my ruminations of digital camera algorithms that some cameras brains (the magic beetles I referred to) were doing some HDR trickery without the photographer knowing to juggle tonal ranges and make better pictures from iffy exposures selected by the photographer - but I could/can only guess.  It wouldn't have been difficult to pull off ..  and there's have been benefits to the manufacturers for not telling us they were doing it.  First it would make that manufacturers cameras look better to the consumers and secondly it would confound competitors who wouldn't guess why CameraA was making better images than their own product - giving manufacturer A advantage in the market.
 
How would a photographer know if this were happening?  I did some experiments - I took a shot of a series of tonal patches under reflected light with references from a spot meter and took some shots of the scene at different exposures with the camera set on manual.  Then I took a range of shots of a fixed density object (grey card) through a matt box masked up with a broad selection of neutral density filters yielding a 7 stop range.   Now truth be told it took me while to realize this matt box was actually more of a method of determining the lens contrast more than it was of use in making exposure changes, but with fixed lens cameras it served the same purpose.   Comparing the results and checking the densities of the colours recorded with a colour picker in a non-adjusting image program under a non-adjusting operating system (remembering modern OS's can and do adjust visible densities for monitor display effect) I found varying and mixed results.  It seemed the camera I used even set totally on manual was compressing the tonal range into a curve that produced acceptable tonal ranges for the final image - that's to so say tones that SHOULD have fallen outside the range of capture were recorded. 
 
The effect was consistent but conflicted with actual exposures made by altering the exposure on the camera - so if I made an exposure that should have rendered a certain pair of tones black - they were, but if I included other tones much higher up the range, the lower tones *were* recorded and with different values.  magic beetles..
 
This isn't really a surprise, the same camera(s) tested were capable of taking RAWs, why wouldn't the manufacturer be clever and shoot jpegs as RAWs and do the fiddling with algorithms in-camera to yield the best jpeg it could all while pretending to be simply shooting jpegs?  they'd be daft not to really.  SO long back I concluded for the vast majority of my shots I'd behave exactly as all E6 shooters did and shoot for the best exposure and get what I got by shooting jpeg and for me it worked well..  Lots of time saved avoiding faffing about post production with RAW captures..  There were rare times when I shoot RAW, but these are times I know I want massive tonal ranges to fiddle with or to create images from composites - but that's really rare for me.
 
At the end of the day the cameras appear to serve both consumers and pro's well - except that they're so good they continue to push professionals out of the market. 
 
My main gripe is as a pedantic fiddler is the cameras are doing things I cannot control and I cannot readily identify their characteristics - what it is they're doing.
 
Should anyone care? nahh - just shoot delete and shoot again !  for 99% of photographers these things are amazing!  They can add details the lens can't actually see, they can compress and include tones that shouldn't be recorded, they can brighten colours and make them really pop -  their magic beetles are super clever and can give you great shots almost every time.
 
Scientific photographers recording minerals, stress patterns, medical images, horticultural or cellular photographers could have issues though.  I had a guy from the WA Herbarium in years back pulling his hair out over the newest camera he'd bought which was recording the yellows of Hibbertia sp. all wrong. 'my old camera got them right!' .. so I suggested he used the old one for those yellows.  We got talking - He'd tried masks, macro curve adjustments and all manner of post-image trickery but none of them did the job without mangling other colours in the images (especially other yellows) and after our discussion he ended up settling on 6 cameras to record the colours of various plants accurately .  He was grumbling that he could just change the film in one camera once.. I don't know any mineral photographers these days, the geologists I know tell me they have never heard of a 'mineral photographer' and just shoot photos in the field using their mobile phones.  The results may serve as memory triggers for them but they can't be used for reference by any stretch of the imagination.   I work with some medical photographers who seem to think green casts and dark magenta capillaries are OK but hey, most of them have never heard of IR photography use for recording haematomas or in fact using anything outside the visible spectrum for their work ..  It appears the days when photograpy could be used in diagnosis are long gone aside from radiography, though thermography seems to be creeping back in - though I suppose some special side field in medicine will claim diagnostic rights over interpretation of such images and then fuddle their way through until they get it right.
 
k
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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