Alfred Stieglitz said once, "if you're an amateur, and, of course, we are all amateurs..." A poster on Photoforum said (perhaps with a bit of shame) "she had no education in Art." How I envy her!
Here's a quote by Shunryu Suzuki-roshi (1905 - 1971), who was responsible for creating a vigorous Zen movement in America. "So the most difficult thing is always to keep your beginner's mind. There is no need to have a deep understanding of Zen. Even though you read much Zen literature, you must read each sentence with a fresh mind. You should not say, "I know what Zen is," or "I have attained enlightenment." This is also the real secret of the arts: always be a beginner. Be very very careful about this point. If you start to practice zazen, you will begin to appreciate your beginner's mind. It is the secret of Zen practice."
We sometimes are ashamed of our beginner's mind. I was writing a week ago about how hard it is to emulate the drawings of a child. Yet we recognize that the child's drawings are often more expressive than the adult's. The second we are not learners but "teachers" we cease projecting an excitement for the subject. Andy Davidhazy is a good example of someone who is always curious and looking for new ways to do things. He is never satisfied with what he already knows and is forever seeking out new challenges.
On another note, I wonder why people say "art and photography." To me, that would be like saying "women and human beings" (my wife would shoot me (deservedly)). Photography is a way of making art. On the other hand (to show that no two photographers agree), one of my teachers, Art Sinsabaugh, would become very defensive if anyone called him an artist. "I'm not an artist," he'd say, "I'm a photographer." I don't think he liked the special privileges that go with being an artist (artistic license, for example). He just wanted to show what he saw.
Kim
On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:14 PM, <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Lea I too am self taught. I tell people I have a masters degree in photography from the University of Rubbermaid (the maker of garbage cans to those in areas where such a can may not be common) but how we learn isn't important. Abe Lincoln was largely self educated and I think he did ok.Don't be surprised if you get the "we are the experts" attitude. They are going to be shocked, but that's ok. Ask away and please report back what they say. See if they will describe exactly why they think it belongs, and if they will we may all learn something. We may all think they are crazy, but that's ok too. At that point they have explained why.Now we often have gaps, but I found artists can teach us something about photography. For the longest time like you I studied photography exclusively, but realized that craft is only one part. Both painters, sketch artist, watercolor ect have one thing in common. We are all creating an image. Still a self taught photog with that kind of drive is one I would pose for in a second if you are ever in the Dallas Fort Worth area. Artist have given me some unique insights.-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: museum collections? (now FOB)From: Lea Murphy <lea@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, January 27, 2011 8:58 am
To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
<photoforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
I have really enjoyed this exchange of opinions and ideas.I am inspired to go back to the museum in some spare time this afternoon and speak with a docent who might be able to explain to me why/how the photographs I was so intrigued by ended up on the walls. I will report back with what I learn.I am completely self-taught in photography and have no education in 'art' which is to say I haven't studied it (sculpture, painting, textile, etc) like I've studied photography. I don't presume to know what makes great art but I do believe I have a pretty good sense of what makes a good photograph. What's hanging in the Kemper isn't even that. It's not a good photograph. I would be happy to accept a good photograph of a subject that challenges me but a bad photograph (lighting, angle) of mundane subject matter on a museum wall is worth questioning.Not ten feet from the wedding photograph are three Steiglitz photographs and two Robert Mapplethorpes. In the same exhibit.Andrew posted two links to podcasts by Brooks Jensen and they are very appropriate to this conversation I believe. Sometimes what we see hanging is nothing but poo and we've been blindsided to believing it must be good because it's hanging in a museum. I'm seeking to find out why the Kemper believed these two particular images (one of which I can't yet find a link to) good enough to purchase because I simply don't see it.I'm open to learning, though. Update to follow...LeaOn Jan 27, 2011, at 6:58 AM, mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:Well for what its worth, I personally would like to commend the group.Why?No one has been personally insulted. (at least if anyone feels that I didn't take it that way)No one has been called any names.
Though its clear there are a number of different views, everyone has kept it on an adult level regardless of age.Though we may disagree, its been done with respect.Says a lot for this group-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: museum collections? (now FOB)
From: Marilyn <marilyn160@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, January 27, 2011 6:07 am
To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
<photoforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
"Might I ask, who here would put themselves voluntarily on an Arts selection
panel?" - Herschel
***
I would volunteer to be on a panel any time, Herschel. I see the
opportunities to study the thinking process of others, and understand to
some degree, why certain images are chosen, or not.
I am and have been involved in the editing and publishing of several writing
projects. I participate each year for the very reason I noted above. I
want to be on the panels to cheer on the entries I feel are worthy, and I
want to understand how something I deem as unacceptable, poor work, etc.,
etc., ends up being in the volume or, with art - on the wall. It's a
wonderful learning experience and allows me to broaden my perspective. In
either case, my mind isn't really changed much as far as to what I feel is
good and/or acceptable, but over the years I've learned to see from the
perspective of others, which I think is a good thing. And, in a few cases
I've come to respect a piece (art or writing) that I first felt isn't worthy
(in my humble opinion). So, I've grown.
In some cases I have a suspicion that "who you know" may have some sway, but
that's only a suspicion.
(I'm still puzzled as to why the Huntington would showcase Bukowski.)
Marilyn
-----Original Message-----
From: Karl Shah-Jenner
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 1:22 AM
To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
Subject: Re: museum collections? (now FOB)
--
Kim Mosley
mrkimmosley@xxxxxxxxx
Website: http://kimmosley.com
Blog: http://kimmosley.com/blog
