wow...perhaps your arrogance has gone untested...to quote you: "If you feel that what you are being asked to do as a part of your job is
excessive, you are perfectly free to go find work elsewhere." 1) Not sure I remember saying anything about the requirements of my job, or the complaints of others in this respect 2) I grew up with that bullshit "if you don't like it, you can leave" mentality...to be honest, three weeks after Bush Jr. was inaugurated, I signed a contract to work overseas...I did leave, and life is a lot better, thank you. 3) The profit as incentive argument is as myopic as its long term application in society.
Just one question, since you brought the subject up...What is a hard work?
I've met too many Harvard grads who complained that grades there are artificial and corruptible. I've always pleasured in watching these prodigal sons make fantastic asses of themselves with their father's money and suck up their pride on a bed of money. Indeed, they get the jobs, and they have the money...but how does this relate to what a person learns about photography?
I'm sorry you took it so personally.
"somewhere between zero and one...everything else is exaggeration" - Anonymous
Just one question, since you brought the subject up...What is a hard work?
I've met too many Harvard grads who complained that grades there are artificial and corruptible. I've always pleasured in watching these prodigal sons make fantastic asses of themselves with their father's money and suck up their pride on a bed of money. Indeed, they get the jobs, and they have the money...but how does this relate to what a person learns about photography?
I'm sorry you took it so personally.
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Blackwell <mblackwell1958@xxxxxxxxx>
To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students <photoforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 9:45:13 PM
Subject: Re: Online studies? Correspondence studies?
Trevor I think you to a point are on the right track. My experience is that if the STUDENT wants the knowledge bad enough, Micky Minnie and Donald with help from Hewey Dewey and Louie could teach the class and the student will learn. Perception of that education is often though as much or more important. That perception is what is going to open the door and give one the chance to use that knowledge. Now the really driven student with Donald, Huey Dewey, and Louie as instructors may actually be smarter, more knowledgeable and better able to put that knowledge to work in the real world that a graduate from an Ivy league school, but the Ivy league grad is more likely to get the job because of perception. Its just life.
Some would consider our society "obsessed with a buck" and for a few individuals and companies that is true. Yet the ethic of hard work is what built this country and for many areas of the world that attitude just does not exist. Hard work is mis understood as obsessed with a buck. Agreed it sometimes can be a fine line, and often its not always a clear line. It is also important to remember that no one is required to stay on the same job. If you feel that what you are being asked to do as a part of your job is excessive, you are perfectly free to go find work elsewhere. Companies that overwork their employees find this to be a big problem. Yet its the profit that comes from hard work that has driven some of the greatest advances in the history of mankind and there is (IMHO) absolutely nothing wrong with that.
--- On Sun, 8/17/08, Trevor Cunningham <tr_cunningham@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> From: Trevor Cunningham <tr_cunningham@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Online studies? Correspondence studies?
> To: "List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students" <photoforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 12:00 AM
> I'm currently at the end of a Master's degree in
> Educational Technology that has been conducted 100% online.
> Although, I often have to purchase texts to go with the
> class. As a matter of fact, there was even a digital
> imaging elective I had the option of taking for the degree,
> but I opted out of the class because it had very little to
> do with my emphasis. Which brings me to my point. As an
> American overseas, I've come to learn how obsessed our
> culture is with value for the dollar. Also, as an educator,
> I am consistently shocked by what people consider to be a
> "good school". To put these two observations
> together, it really boils down to objectives. The person
> that will truly succeed is the same person who began with
> intended outcomes. A little research into a course/program
> will tell you if it is of benefit to you. As to the
> "bang for your buck" mentality, the value of
> education is completely personal, subjective, and relates
> directly to what
> you hoped to learn/achieve in the first place. I could
> certainly imagine a course from the NYIP being either an
> amazing experience or a complete waste of time and money.
> I've actually found some online tutorials to be very
> enriching and easy on the pocket, though very light in
> academic prestige.
>
> "somewhere between zero and one...everything else is
> exaggeration" - Anonymous
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: our family account <mywebacct@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals -
> Students <photoforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 11:18:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Online studies? Correspondence studies?
>
>
> What are peoples thoughts on correspondence studies such
> as New York Institute of Photography? You actually get
> hard copy
> ,material, have access to "teachers", and can
> send in photos for
> evaluation?
>
>
> On Aug 15, 2008, at 4:16 PM, Gregory wrote:
>
> I personally havn't found on-line education to be much
> more than tutorials...you get what you pay for. I myself
> plan to attend the Sante Fe workshops soon if I can,
> hopefully March '09.
>
> Jock Sturgess is one of several headlined educators. Cost?
> A whooping $3k for the progam alone. Of course for that
> money, I could instead, upgrade to a D700._jjeeeessshhhhh!
>
> Take care out there,
> Gregory
> www.fireframeimaging.com
> www.ebbtidegalleryofgifts.com
> http://soundexposure.org
>
>
> "Expose for the secrets,
> Develop for the surprises!"
From: Mark Blackwell <mblackwell1958@xxxxxxxxx>
To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students <photoforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 9:45:13 PM
Subject: Re: Online studies? Correspondence studies?
Trevor I think you to a point are on the right track. My experience is that if the STUDENT wants the knowledge bad enough, Micky Minnie and Donald with help from Hewey Dewey and Louie could teach the class and the student will learn. Perception of that education is often though as much or more important. That perception is what is going to open the door and give one the chance to use that knowledge. Now the really driven student with Donald, Huey Dewey, and Louie as instructors may actually be smarter, more knowledgeable and better able to put that knowledge to work in the real world that a graduate from an Ivy league school, but the Ivy league grad is more likely to get the job because of perception. Its just life.
Some would consider our society "obsessed with a buck" and for a few individuals and companies that is true. Yet the ethic of hard work is what built this country and for many areas of the world that attitude just does not exist. Hard work is mis understood as obsessed with a buck. Agreed it sometimes can be a fine line, and often its not always a clear line. It is also important to remember that no one is required to stay on the same job. If you feel that what you are being asked to do as a part of your job is excessive, you are perfectly free to go find work elsewhere. Companies that overwork their employees find this to be a big problem. Yet its the profit that comes from hard work that has driven some of the greatest advances in the history of mankind and there is (IMHO) absolutely nothing wrong with that.
--- On Sun, 8/17/08, Trevor Cunningham <tr_cunningham@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> From: Trevor Cunningham <tr_cunningham@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Online studies? Correspondence studies?
> To: "List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students" <photoforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Sunday, August 17, 2008, 12:00 AM
> I'm currently at the end of a Master's degree in
> Educational Technology that has been conducted 100% online.
> Although, I often have to purchase texts to go with the
> class. As a matter of fact, there was even a digital
> imaging elective I had the option of taking for the degree,
> but I opted out of the class because it had very little to
> do with my emphasis. Which brings me to my point. As an
> American overseas, I've come to learn how obsessed our
> culture is with value for the dollar. Also, as an educator,
> I am consistently shocked by what people consider to be a
> "good school". To put these two observations
> together, it really boils down to objectives. The person
> that will truly succeed is the same person who began with
> intended outcomes. A little research into a course/program
> will tell you if it is of benefit to you. As to the
> "bang for your buck" mentality, the value of
> education is completely personal, subjective, and relates
> directly to what
> you hoped to learn/achieve in the first place. I could
> certainly imagine a course from the NYIP being either an
> amazing experience or a complete waste of time and money.
> I've actually found some online tutorials to be very
> enriching and easy on the pocket, though very light in
> academic prestige.
>
> "somewhere between zero and one...everything else is
> exaggeration" - Anonymous
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: our family account <mywebacct@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals -
> Students <photoforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 11:18:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Online studies? Correspondence studies?
>
>
> What are peoples thoughts on correspondence studies such
> as New York Institute of Photography? You actually get
> hard copy
> ,material, have access to "teachers", and can
> send in photos for
> evaluation?
>
>
> On Aug 15, 2008, at 4:16 PM, Gregory wrote:
>
> I personally havn't found on-line education to be much
> more than tutorials...you get what you pay for. I myself
> plan to attend the Sante Fe workshops soon if I can,
> hopefully March '09.
>
> Jock Sturgess is one of several headlined educators. Cost?
> A whooping $3k for the progam alone. Of course for that
> money, I could instead, upgrade to a D700._jjeeeessshhhhh!
>
> Take care out there,
> Gregory
> www.fireframeimaging.com
> www.ebbtidegalleryofgifts.com
> http://soundexposure.org
>
>
> "Expose for the secrets,
> Develop for the surprises!"
