Well first of all, Les, I don't put any images on CD. Point of fact -- side
bar :) -- I wrote an article for Photographica World detailing the
difference betweeen a print and an image, so putting stuff on CD would be
pointless times two.
I had a similar experience you did with an aircraft type magazine. It was
Wings of Gold, and I was a US. Navy journalist. I pulled a duty to fly all
over the world making pictures for the rag, and got shot down by command
even though I was a reservist and would be doing the whole thing on my own
time, my own money, flying Space available. The excuse? They had their own
in-house Public Affairs at each site and wouldn't grant the assignment.
Oh, I have more stories and it all comes down to who can grab the gold ring
while on the merry-go-round. Those of us who smile and bow as the victor
passes all have our own turn.
I like hearing the stories.
Point of fact, again. I gave permission to any person who comes into Kinkos
with my Carmel book to reproduce pictures. But, no one has. Although, it's
interesting when I tell folks to go to their library and get my book
"Carmel -- A Timeless Place" through inter library loan, and they do.
Amatures and students who lower prices offer lower standards to people of
less integrity. There's no question about the stories told by pros about
clients who don't pay because "My aunt did a better job." Cancelations by
clients who say, "Oh, for that money, I bought my kid a camera and they did
it for me."
It's hard! You have to offer stuff no one else has to offer, like being
there on time, well dressed, and with a functioning camera, and a smile even
in the face of insults, poor manners, difficult requests. We're not the
stars, professional photographers get pee'd on. There's a Spanish term for
that, ummm . . . I forgot.
Steve Shapiro
If Kostas gives away one picture will it kill him/her? Will it insult the
receipient? Like, so . . .[what]?
----- Original Message -----
From: <fotofx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students"
<photoforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 1:47 PM
Subject: RE: Would you give away a print to a prospective client?
Hi Jeff,
I shoot in three main areas, aircraft, fashion & sports. I am not a fine
art photographer. I don't create many pretty pictures of trees and
mountains. I really appreciate those that do, however.
I hear where you are coming from, but how amateurs and students lower
pricing is this.
About 6 years ago I was working on a TPP for a major aircraft magazine. I
paid in advance the costs of the air to air work so that I could control
the images and the intricate details of the shoot itself. I had already
talked money with the magazine, pitched the story and images. I did not
have a confirmed contract with them (there was a serious time crunch)
however primarily because they would not sign with me as an unknown (so
they told me later). Yes I had done all the prep work prior to pitching
the idea. I did the shoot and had most of the story written when a nearly
identical story was published in there sister magazine using the contacts
and aircraft that I had pitched.
When I called the PE he told me that they thought the idea was very good
but they could get the similier images cheaper and do the writing
themselves. I was frozen out. A retired air force guy shot the pictures
and gave it to the magazine just so he could get his name in there. 13
images over 6 pages including one gate fold. My images were of greater
quality w/ better formations and would have garnered about 3k for me all
told.
And don't get me started on newbies in the wedding arena that use give
aways as a way to get business and undercut the other photographers in
that market. People do not buy a photograoher for the quality of the image
so mcuh as the price.
You see the magazines love to lowball the photographers while grabbing all
rights too. But they don't do that to the ink and paper guys that actually
print the magazine do they. They get paid because the editors know that
theill no next publication if they play any games.
Plain and simple the freebies are where a magazine or newspaper will get
it's shot when it can. Free stock, is impossible to compete with. So still
where does that leave Kostas?
If he gives away a print will the patron actually want to buy the others
or will just take his freebie and go home?
Really folks how many have gone to walmart and got the free 8x10 of the
grandkids this week and left the rest on the table. Fine art, no.
Valuanble image maybe. But With Steve, he lives in a different world than
us. By that I mean that Carmel has more art galleries than some states.
It's great to invoke the name of dead master but that does not fit into
todays business models. The reality is that most could not care one whit
about taking the freebie
and going home.
It just rankles the crap out me when someone wants to give their work
away. I rarely do that. I will do trades with some if it benefits me. But
I would never give up an image for nothing. A trade has value going both
ways. A freebie with no actual hope of a sale is stupid. I have given
images to get better access to an event. I have given images to a family
when that was all they had of a dying child. The family was homeless.
But giving anything to the rich in the hopes they will buy more, is not
sound business. to me it cheapens wour creative spirit and show that you
automatically devalue your own hard work.
Les
Steve one question. Can I get all your images sent to me on a CD then I
can print them and sell them at the flea market. Because you can with
many of the old master photographers. It is truly sad that that takes
place.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Spirer <jeff@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Nov 13, 2005 12:46 PM
To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
<photoforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Would you give away a print to a prospective client?
At 06:58 AM 11/13/2005, lookaround360@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Amateurs and students can ruin the price structure of a market for the
professionals by working for free or cut-rate. Everybody looses
I don't see how amateurs and students are responsible for maintaining
a price structure for professionals. People selling work or taking
paying jobs in photography are responsible for creating the value in
what they do and should never be dependent on what some other group
is doing. If I can't find a way to make my photographs worth money,
that's my problem, not the guy down the street giving them away.
I lose far more from the outright ripping off of my photos on the
web. I have a photo I sold for web use which is now the most ripped
off photo of professional kickboxing you can find on web sites. This
is what puts me in a bad situation, not the free prints I usually
give to boxers I've photographed, and which result in their gyms and
trainers giving me paying business. It's particularly difficult
because I have to explain to the client that I can't control what
people do, although I do email the thieves when I find them and have
succeeded in getting them taking off or paid for. But if someone
else gives away a similar photo, I just have to have a better photo,
or a reason for mine to be worth purchasing. As a photographer, I
have to take responsibility for myself.
Jeff Spirer
Photos: http://www.spirer.com
One People: http://www.onepeople.com/
Surfaces and Marks: http://www.withoutgrass.com
