Hi Jeff, I shoot in three main areas, aircraft, fashion & sports. I am not a fine art photographer. I don't create many pretty pictures of trees and mountains. I really appreciate those that do, however. I hear where you are coming from, but how amateurs and students lower pricing is this. About 6 years ago I was working on a TPP for a major aircraft magazine. I paid in advance the costs of the air to air work so that I could control the images and the intricate details of the shoot itself. I had already talked money with the magazine, pitched the story and images. I did not have a confirmed contract with them (there was a serious time crunch) however primarily because they would not sign with me as an unknown (so they told me later). Yes I had done all the prep work prior to pitching the idea. I did the shoot and had most of the story written when a nearly identical story was published in there sister magazine using the contacts and aircraft that I had pitched. When I called the PE he told me that they thought the idea was very good but they could get the similier images cheaper and do the writing themselves. I was frozen out. A retired air force guy shot the pictures and gave it to the magazine just so he could get his name in there. 13 images over 6 pages including one gate fold. My images were of greater quality w/ better formations and would have garnered about 3k for me all told. And don't get me started on newbies in the wedding arena that use give aways as a way to get business and undercut the other photographers in that market. People do not buy a photograoher for the quality of the image so mcuh as the price. You see the magazines love to lowball the photographers while grabbing all rights too. But they don't do that to the ink and paper guys that actually print the magazine do they. They get paid because the editors know that theill no next publication if they play any games. Plain and simple the freebies are where a magazine or newspaper will get it's shot when it can. Free stock, is impossible to compete with. So still where does that leave Kostas? If he gives away a print will the patron actually want to buy the others or will just take his freebie and go home? Really folks how many have gone to walmart and got the free 8x10 of the grandkids this week and left the rest on the table. Fine art, no. Valuanble image maybe. But With Steve, he lives in a different world than us. By that I mean that Carmel has more art galleries than some states. It's great to invoke the name of dead master but that does not fit into todays business models. The reality is that most could not care one whit about taking the freebie and going home. It just rankles the crap out me when someone wants to give their work away. I rarely do that. I will do trades with some if it benefits me. But I would never give up an image for nothing. A trade has value going both ways. A freebie with no actual hope of a sale is stupid. I have given images to get better access to an event. I have given images to a family when that was all they had of a dying child. The family was homeless. But giving anything to the rich in the hopes they will buy more, is not sound business. to me it cheapens wour creative spirit and show that you automatically devalue your own hard work. Les Steve one question. Can I get all your images sent to me on a CD then I can print them and sell them at the flea market. Because you can with many of the old master photographers. It is truly sad that that takes place. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Spirer <jeff@xxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Nov 13, 2005 12:46 PM To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students <photoforum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: RE: Would you give away a print to a prospective client? At 06:58 AM 11/13/2005, lookaround360@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: >Amateurs and students can ruin the price structure of a market for the >professionals by working for free or cut-rate. Everybody looses I don't see how amateurs and students are responsible for maintaining a price structure for professionals. People selling work or taking paying jobs in photography are responsible for creating the value in what they do and should never be dependent on what some other group is doing. If I can't find a way to make my photographs worth money, that's my problem, not the guy down the street giving them away. I lose far more from the outright ripping off of my photos on the web. I have a photo I sold for web use which is now the most ripped off photo of professional kickboxing you can find on web sites. This is what puts me in a bad situation, not the free prints I usually give to boxers I've photographed, and which result in their gyms and trainers giving me paying business. It's particularly difficult because I have to explain to the client that I can't control what people do, although I do email the thieves when I find them and have succeeded in getting them taking off or paid for. But if someone else gives away a similar photo, I just have to have a better photo, or a reason for mine to be worth purchasing. As a photographer, I have to take responsibility for myself. Jeff Spirer Photos: http://www.spirer.com One People: http://www.onepeople.com/ Surfaces and Marks: http://www.withoutgrass.com
