Gregory openly wished -- >photographers in general made an effort toward some form of >discipline in their work is not dictating how photographers should >behave. Can it not be considered instead, as avocation toward higher >ideals? Being a responsible member of a community? Oh, so now the people who think unlike you would be labeled Undisciplined ? Irresponsible ? Having lower ideals than you ? Gregory, I've no qualms with self-imposed guidelines, or those imposed by ASMP, APPA, etc members on themselves. I notice that your core point, the vaporous notion that the public is undergoing a traumatic crisis of faith and truth, and that therefore photographers should do as you say, remains an unsupported assumption. One that you carefully avoided replying to. Why ? --- Luis --- Luis