[I've CCed openssh-unix-dev for awareness, but set Mail-Followup-To to just debian-devel and debian-ssh to avoid potentially spamming them with a long discussion. If you choose to override this then that's your call, but please be mindful of upstream's time.] Following the xz-utils backdoor, I'm reconsidering some choices in Debian's OpenSSH packaging. Please note that significant rearchitecture of the upstream code is out of scope for the Debian packaging, so I'm going to disregard comments of the form "maybe there should be a module loader so all these things can just be plug-ins" or other such blue-sky things; from my point of view this is just about configuring things a bit more wisely within more or less our current constraints. libsystemd ========== This is the obvious thing on everyone's mind right now. At the time I merged that patch, "not NIHing code that's in a perfectly good library" seemed like a reasonable trade-off, but we do seem to have ended up on the wrong side of history on this one. There's work in progress to land readiness protocol notification upstream without libsystemd (thanks Damien and Luca!), and I expect to cherry-pick this into Debian once it's agreed, so we'll get rid of that linkage and reduce our patch load a bit. We also have a patch from Ubuntu to support the systemd socket activation protocol. I've rewritten this to avoid using libsystemd, and I'll submit it upstream once the readiness notification work is sorted out. But it's not particularly invasive once the libsystemd linkage is removed, so it's not the end of the world if this ends up staying in our patch queue. GSS-API key exchange ==================== Way back in 2005, I merged the GSS-API key exchange patch into Debian's main openssh package (https://bugs.debian.org/275472). At the time it seemed like a sensible overall reduction in maintenance burden (if I remember correctly, the openssh-krb5 package often ended up lagging a fair bit behind openssh). While the patch is fairly large, it hasn't generally been too hard to forward-port to newer versions of OpenSSH, and Fedora carries it too so there's some sharing of work. However, OpenSSH upstream has long rejected it, mainly on the basis that they don't like adding new pre-authentication attack surface, and this week seems like a good one to reconsider what patches we're shipping by default. gssapi.patch is the largest patch in our openssh package by an order of magnitude, and easily the most intrusive in terms of complexity and exposure, so I've somewhat regretted my choice to merge it a few times over the years. All the same, I'm aware that some people now depend on having this facility in Debian's main openssh package: I get enough occasional bug reports to convince me that it's still in use. So, if I decide to split it back out, I'd want to arrange for a somewhat graceful transition. We've had it for nearly 20 years now, so we can take the time to do a proper job that at least tries not to leave users in the lurch. How does this rough plan sound? * for Debian trixie (current testing): * add dependency-only packages called something like openssh-client-gsskex and openssh-server-gsskex, depending on their non-gsskex alternatives * add NEWS.Debian entry saying that people need to install these packages if they want to retain GSS-API key exchange support * add release note saying the same * for Debian trixie+1 (or maybe after the next Ubuntu LTS, depending on exact timings): * add separate openssh-gsskex source package, carrying gssapi.patch in addition to whatever's in openssh, and whose binary packages Conflicts/Replaces/Provides the corresponding ones from openssh * add some kind of regular CI to warn about openssh-gsskex being out of date relative to openssh * drop gssapi.patch from openssh, except for small patches to configuration file handling to accept the relevant options with some kind of informative warning (compare https://bugs.debian.org/152657) I guess we should decide whether the separate packages are to be needed for GSS-API authentication as well as key exchange, because that affects the choice of dependency-only package names in trixie. If we only split out gssapi.patch (for key exchange; sorry about the slightly misleading name) but kept --with-kerberos5 (which also controls authentication), then we'd significantly reduce our patch load but not sshd's linkage. I've seen the suggestion of using libgssglue here (https://fosstodon.org/@jas/112194876950058188). That might be a good idea and I have no particular objection to it, though I also don't know much about it and it would probably be better if an expert did the work. Perhaps it would make continuing to build the default variant using --with-kerberos5 more palatable, since then the extra non-trivial linkage would only affect people who turn on those options. TCP wrappers ============ We carry a patch to restore support for TCP wrappers, which was dropped in OpenSSH 6.7 (October 2014); see https://lists.mindrot.org/pipermail/openssh-unix-dev/2014-April/032497.html and thread. That wasn't long before the Debian 8 (jessie) freeze, and so I patched it back in "temporarily", but then I dropped the ball on organizing a proper transition. libwrap links to libgssapi_krb5 (via libnsl and libtirpc), so if we want to do a proper job of removing that linkage then we'll have to finish this transition too. This probably means a similar timeline, with the addition that people will have to make sure that they aren't relying on /etc/hosts.deny being effective for sshd. At the time, denyhosts was popular, but it was removed from Debian several years ago. I remember that, when I dealt with that on my own systems, fail2ban seemed like the obvious replacement, and my impression is that it's pretty widely used nowadays; it's very pluggable but it normally works by adding firewall rules. Are there any similar popular systems left that rely on editing /etc/hosts.deny? Fedora dropped libwrap from sshd in 2018 (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1530163), and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Deprecate_TCP_wrappers has some other options here (which would need to be adapted for Debian, but broadly similar approaches would work). SELinux ======= The fact that we build using --with-selinux has come up (https://cybervillains.com/@djm/112192735215160932). I haven't formed a complete opinion on this, but I'm less worried about this linkage than about GSS-API: it doesn't need much in the way of complex OpenSSH patches, and the idea that it links indirectly to liblzma seems to have been a mistaken one that turned up early in the discussions around the xz-utils backdoor. My feeling on this is that it's probably of about as much concern as PAM, which we're definitely stuck with enabling, and I'm not enthusiastic about adding a matrix of variant packages. We could go for something like openssh-{client,server}-full, but I'm not clear that there's much in the way of correlation between people who need GSS-API key exchange and people who need SELinux support, and I don't want to force more people than necessary onto the variant that includes an extra 4000-odd-line patch. For the time being my inclination is to leave this be, but I've seen the suggestion that pam_selinux is basically all you need (https://infosec.exchange/@alwayscurious/112192949171400643), so maybe it would be an option to drop --with-selinux in favour of that? I've never used SELinux, so I'd need an expert to weigh on here. Comments welcome, -- Colin Watson (he/him) [cjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx] _______________________________________________ openssh-unix-dev mailing list openssh-unix-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.mindrot.org/mailman/listinfo/openssh-unix-dev
