Hi, On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 06:10:20PM -0700, Greg KH wrote: > On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:19:06AM -0400, Forest Bond wrote: > > Hi, > > > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 09:02:48AM -0400, John W. Linville wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 02:43:54PM +0200, Johannes Berg wrote: > > > > Hi Marcel, > > > > > > > > > just to document the irony here. Two or three years ago at OLS, Kyle and > > > > > Greg were making fun of Ubuntu merging its 5th wireless stack into their > > > > > kernel. Now the staging crap is doing exactly the same. > > Yes we are. But we are doing it correctly :) > > Turns out that people actually want to use their hardware, and no one > else was working on merging these drivers, so that is what staging is > for. > > > Well, gosh, I understand the criticism here and if I were a kernel developer I > > imagine my perspective would be much the same. But I can't help but feel that > > there's some amount of hypocrisy when we hammer on a manufacturer to properly > > license their driver and then let it drop dead when they do. > > I agree. > > > I understand that the problem would be solved if they manufacturers would > > suddenly "get it," but the scale of social problem preventing that is likely too > > large to change anytime soon. > > Agreed. > > > If kernel developers are too busy to support the hardware, why do the > > manufacturers take so much criticism for releasing binary-only drivers or badly > > licensed drivers, or for neglecting to release technical specifications? If > > what I'm sensing is correct and there's no practical likelihood of these devices > > getting in-kernel support even with those issues resolved, the criticism almost > > seems unjustified. > > > > I appreciate what the kernel developers do, of course, and my intention is not > > to ruffle feathers. But when a manufacturer that has taken a lot of criticism > > for its approach to the Linux community shows some good will, it seems like we > > ought to be able to turn that into something productive. If we can't, what have > > we been complaining about? > > > > My apologies if I'm way off on this. I haven't been around all that long so it > > is certainly possible. > > You aren't way off at all. > > Thanks for the patches, I'll get to them in a few days when my "real > job" calms down a bit. They're now in my queue, and will not get lost. Thanks, Greg. Your reputation is well-deserved, to say the least. I need to get you some new patches, anyway, as the upstream sources depend on header files that I failed to provide as they sit in a separate includes directory. I'll get this sent as soon as time permits (probably today or tomorrow). -Forest -- Forest Bond http://www.alittletooquiet.net http://www.pytagsfs.org
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