Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)

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While this certainly supports claims that the rehab system provided Jaws and nothing else, my greater concern is this. consider the number of say DOS screen readers which existed, from screen power to vocal eyes, from asap to business vision and so forth.
supported by a vast array of synthesis choices as well.
In the windows arena there was jaws, but also windows bridge, the Hal products, wind-vision, and of course window eyes until freedom scientific took over variety options. Why did not the NfB use its funding and influence to secure innovator funding, allowing many independent screen reader developers to keep choices for the windows market? Instead of say fighting the acb, or using their influence to monopolize the rehab system for jaws Alone, or deciding if a group did not want to dance to their tune they would ostrasize people etc.? You talk about apple as if they were being restrictive, when they worked with screen reader talent from the start.


Prior to voiceover there was outspoken, I still have a mac running it, with apple working along side the outspoken developers, first for their product, and then to create voiceover. further, I understand that the mac terminal allows users to access other screen readers as well. to say people would be out of a job without Jaws is only true if Jaws was the only option discussed. after all, NfB as an organization existed long before Microsoft, what was it about them, claiming they represented everyone experiencing sight loss that Microsoft did not want to work with long before narrator? I imagine allot of it was tied to the NFB and their cult like reputation, speaking personally.



On Tue, 16 Aug 2022, Chevelle wrote:

    No matter if you like NFB or not, they were correct in the need to have independent screenreader options.  Hundreds if not thousands of blind people forced to use Windows by their employer would be out of a job if JAWS did not exist.  Narrator still doesn't have anything close to the functionality or scripting capabilities of JAWS or NVDA.


On 8/16/2022 5:07 PM, Brian Buhrow wrote:
 	hello John.  While we'll probably have to agree to disagree, I
 believe we're talking past
 each other.  Our argument was, and is, to encourage Microsoft to follow a
 path which would lead
 to the most choices for the blind Windows user.  If they had pursued the
 development of
 Narrator to the exclusion of other screen reader developers, something
 they talked about and
 which was absolutely within their control, that would not have been good
 for the blind
 population in any way.  The fact that Freedom Scientific benefited from
 that argument, both
 because it was the dominant player in the screen reader space and because
 they were used as an
 example in the argument, was orthogonal to the argument itself.

 	With respect to VoiceOver, I agree.  For those who use VoiceOver and
 like it, that's
 great.  but I know a number of folks who switched to a Mac and found they
 had to switch back to
 Windows because they couldn't work as efficiently or do as much as they
 had been doing under
 Windows.  And there's the rub; if VoiceOver doesn't work for you on the
 Mac, your stuck if you
 want to use the Mac, unless you're willing to hire a reader to do your
 work.  Under Windows,
 you can use Narrator, Jaws or NVDA; all of them have their issues, but,
 between them, you can
 probably find a way to get what you need done; that's not an option for a
 Mac user.

 	And,while I appreciate that I get VoiceOver included with my iPhone
 without having to pay
 extra for it, I don't think of VoiceOver as a free screen reader.  Apple
 products are very
 expensive, relative to the Android or Windows alternatives, even with the
 cost of Jaws added to
 the Windows side, but, of course, there's NVDA now, so I don't have to
 include Jaws in my cost
 comparison.  But really, the problem I have with Apple and Google is that
 I am potentially one
 update away from having an unusable phone or Mac.  That is a very scary
 place to be  if you're
 using their technology to hold a job.  And that is why we argued against
 having Narrator become
 the exclusive screen reader for Windows users.  You have the luxury, as do
 I, of having the
 knowledge and skill to make open source access technology work for you,
 allowing you to pursue
 a successful career.  Not everyone has that option, but we who can
 influence such things,
 should do all we can to pursuade technologists to give non-computer blind
 folks as many choices
 as possible  in their use of access technology.  In my view, and the view
 of the NFB, which is
 where you and I disagree, encouraging Microsoft to develop Narrator with
 the possibility of
 shutting out the third party screen readaers, is not the way to do that.
 thankfully, they have not done that and we still have choice on the
 Windows platform.

 -Brian




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