And where do these employers learn about jaws?
In fact, provide if you do not mind an example of how this works exactly.
after all, unless I am incorrect, these employers are not personal
Jaws users, meaning someone they trust continues to sell them on an
expensive program instead of a largely free one.
On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
Karen,
Most employers don't want NVDA, and will only allow Jaws.
In Nebraska, if an employer said put on whatever works, the counselors will
use NVDA, because of the cost of Jaws.
If some of the clients in a call center already use Jaws, but don't know
NVDA, the counselor will use Jaws, because the other clients will need to
learn one of the two.
So it's all choice, but in the workplace, it depends on what the employer
will allow.
Also, sometimes scripts need to be made, and there are more Jaws scripters
available than there are NVDA add-on writers.
So this perception that Jaws is forced by rehab, from my 31 years in the
business I can say is rubbish.
Now, if a counselor did not know how to use NVDA, and either may be chosen,
the rehab counselor is able to select the one that the counselor feels is
best for the student and for the counselor's teaching.
When it comes to part B moneys, which is used for non-vocational purchases,
where a lot of Jaws purchases come from, it is in the agency's best interest
to spend as little as possible, because that doesn't come back like VR
expenditures do.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email>
Cc: <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
<Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
The challenge with that example is that, as one often gets reminded, the
rehab systems track record for facilitating employment for their clients
is quite poor.
With a high percentage of unemployment among our clients. Making,
speaking personally, your buying Jaws for personal use not really
reflecting how the system would respond to an alternative request.
Now if someone from organized rehab said, okay freedom scientific, we are
creating an employment program where our clients will train in Linux,
needing a solid screen reader solution for the system. We will give you an
exclusive development contract for s millions to create the tool.
Fs would likely say where do we sign?
On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
True enough, but largely, rehab people typically use Windows at work, and
probably at home, but they need to cater to the needs of the client.
If a client used Linux, I doubt that any rehab counselor would advocate
that
the client switch to Windows, unless that was needed for a specific job.
In Nebraska, we purchased Jaws much more for personal use than we did for
work related situations.
So if FS made a JFL, and people were using Linux, rehab would indeed
purchase a JFL product.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email>
Cc: <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
<Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
there was an interesting discussion a month or so back on the blinux list
about how long it took completing tasks in the gui as apposed to say
command line, the comments were quite informative.
Still, fs has never marketed largely to the end user. Instead they market
to the American rehab community.
how much market research has the rehab community done to support the need
for choices?
How many rehab counselors support training in Linux?
one comment made by the subject of this thread about poor quality speech
is a fine one...out of the box Linux has few speech choices. everyone
brings their needs to the table there.
if you want to get fs to care about Linux, you need to prove there is
money for them there, from their main source of income.
On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
Well since Orca seems to work on so many distros, I don't know why FS
would
not be able to do the same.
If Jaws users could switch into Linux, it would be a real game changer,
and
I think with lots more Blind Linux users, we would start seeing
accessibility in Linux not being a second thought.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "K0LNY_Glenn" <glenn@ervin.email>
Cc: <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
<Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
Well technically freedom scientific does not exist any longer, being
bought
by another company.
Still, I can respect why they, or nvda have not created their tools for
Linux.
That is because as I understand it, Linux is quite like clay. You can
mold a distribution into almost anything. there are various
personifications of the system, all sorts of ways and changes and options
for creativity.
however adaptive tools are often extensions of physical characteristics,
hands, eyes, ears, brains, combinations of these.
To build solid assistive tools one must have a solid foundation as it
were. that is part of why there have needed to be so few Apple efforts
at
inclusion, they created with, and then created in-house adaptive tools
for various populations that were built into the system.
Although Microsoft did not bother until much later, in theory at least,
the
consistency of windows is what makes it possible for freedom or the
former
gw micro or nvda to create something that can in theory work.
Floor for the furniture is somewhat solid.
Just my thoughts,
On Sat, 13 Aug 2022, K0LNY_Glenn wrote:
I would like to see Freedom Scientific make a Jaws For Linux.
JFL
I'd certainly pay the yearly rental fee for it, and it would bring many
more
users into Linux.
FS could, with its resources, possibly make it more robust than Orca.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Milan Zamazal" <pdm@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2022 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: "Accessibility in Fedora Workstation" (fwd)
"KL" == Karen Lewellen <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
KL> What bothers me most are his lack of actual qualifications, and
KL> absolute dismissal of what he has not experienced..as if he
KL> defines Linux usage for everyone. That attitude is dangerous,
KL> because he is educating those outside of the accessibility
KL> experiences, who will believe his ignorance is factual. he has
KL> to be expert, it is his job.
Hi Karen,
I know Lukas personally and I admire his skills and qualifications. I
also know first hand that he is open to constructive feedback and I
believe he’d be happy to be corrected about possible technical
inaccuracies in the interview. It may be also a good opportunity to
find out what’s possibly missing in making anybody better informed.
As for “absolute dismissal of what he has not experienced”, what
reasonable free software alternatives to a less or more standard desktop
with Orca and a software synthesizer can you see for a common blind user
who needs to use a fully working web browser, to read and process text
documents, to be compatible with other computer users, etc.?
And let’s be realistic. We celebrate every single developer hired to
improve accessibility. This tells something about the state of the
matters. We cannot expect that a single person will fix all the kinds
of accessibility problems in all the environments. Lukas works at his
job focusing on certain areas currently seen there as urgent ones and I
appreciate this opportunity. Anybody else seeing a need to work on
other areas is welcome to contribute to whatever sees fit, as I do.
Regards,
Milan
