You wrote: Now, on to your OS comment. Do you currently use Linux with Speakup? Because this isn't something "less techy folks" are going to do. Yes, I would love to see Linux as a viable option to replace Windows for blind people, but it's not there and changing Speakups key bindings to work more like Jaws isn't going to get it there. * that is an untested opinion. Glenn On 9/16/2012 4:33 PM, Glenn wrote: > I am referring to the attitude, not the result. > The attitude here is that people either have to do it this way, or not at > all. > We all owe a lot to mostly sighted programmers, and some Blind ones too, > who > wanted to make computers accessible to the Blind. > Now that you are in, so to speak, why should you care if less techie folks > get to use something other than windows? > Some sighted folks think that it is nice if we can use a computer, but > they > don't care enough to make it happen for us. > We see this in equipment like cell phones. > Most people think that we all can learn a bunch of unspoken commands to > use > a cell phone. > I can, but I sure don't wish to do that if I don't have to. > So many folks, for example, will use a less functional phone like the > Haven, > because it is totally accessible, rather than having a phone with > bluetooth > or a camera. > Now if phone makers cared enough to make all phones accessible like the > Haven, then we could choose according to actual phone functions. > Likewise, it would be nice if folks could try Linux based on its merits as > an OS, but because they have invested a lot into learning JFW, and they > will > never change, because that is the path of less resistance. > And like I mentioned before, unless someone is techie enough to care about > it, the extra work involved is not worth it, because folks don't > understand > the benefits of an OS like Linux. > Glenn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler at tysdomain.com> > To: "Glenn" <glennervin at gmail.com>; "Speakup is a screen review system for > Linux." <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 5:12 PM > Subject: Re: speakup todo? > > > No, htis isn't the attitude the sighted people have. Learning a new > operating system requires just that, that you sit down and learn. Look > at all the blind people jumping on the OSX band waggon and buying $1800 > shiny MacBooks. They learned those, and Voiceover's keys are nothing > like Jaws's. > On 9/16/2012 3:51 PM, Glenn wrote: >> Actually, it is this attitude among the sighted, that keeps most >> technology >> from being made accessible to the Blind. >> Wow. >> Glenn >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Alonzo Cuellar" <mariachiac at gmail.com> >> To: "Glenn" <glennervin at gmail.com>; "Speakup is a screen review system >> for >> Linux." <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> >> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 4:38 PM >> Subject: Re: speakup todo? >> >> >> I think the key bindings are fine. There is no trouble with them at all. >> Always be able to expand your mind set. Even if little progress is made. >> After all, you get more advantages from learning the way other screen >> readers work. >> I can see where the option might be useful, but if you don't learn it >> full >> force and always stay trapped in the way jaws works, then you'll never >> expand your horizons. >> people come to linux expecting it to be something like windows. Its not >> and >> it probably never will be similar to windows. Its made for you to >> explore, >> etc. >> I was forced in using linux due to an accident I had with my computer. >> That >> was fine by me though. Ever since then I prefer the unix variances >> weather >> is be linux or mac. >> I'm no programmer by any means, but I do enjoy working with other >> operating >> systems. >> The argument that only techies spend the time to learn new keyboard >> commands >> is always widely used. I consider that as an excuse. Everyone can learn >> how >> to use a device weather it be a phone or computer. Maybe the person may >> have >> difficulty and may not excel where in mastering it, but thats ok. You can >> apply this to any situation. >> If we were to stop learning? Then we would never excel and stay trapped >> in >> the mind frame that this or that is to hard. >> Learn while you still can. Once you get older it gets harder to learn and >> thats where it might be a problem. >> >> Alonzo >> >> >> On Sep 16, 2012, at 3:59 PM, Glenn <glennervin at cableone.net> wrote: >> >>> That is the kind of thinking that will keep Linux in the shadows. >>> I teach people how to use screenreaders, and people have a hard enough >>> time >>> switching from the mouse to all these keyboard commands. >>> When people begrudgingly learn JFW keyboard mappings to some degree, do >>> you >>> think they will willing go out to learn different key mappings? >>> Only the techie types do that. >>> Glenn >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler at tysdomain.com> >>> To: "Glenn" <glennervin at gmail.com>; "Speakup is a screen review system >>> for >>> Linux." <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 3:39 PM >>> Subject: Re: speakup todo? >>> >>> >>> I'm not really to worried about JFW key mappings honestly. First it's >>> sort of weird, but mainly if they can't get used to using different >>> keys, they're never going to live on Linux, at least not in the cli. >>> On 9/16/2012 2:34 PM, Glenn wrote: >>>> The big one for SpeakUp would be for it to have the option to switch to >>>> JFW >>>> key mappings. >>>> This will allow many people to switch to Linux easily. >>>> Microsoft did this with MS Word, allowing people to use Word Perfect >>>> key >>>> mappings. >>>> I think this is the only way Linux will ever become any more popular to >>>> screenreader users. >>>> Glenn >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler at tysdomain.com> >>>> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." >>>> <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 1:17 PM >>>> Subject: speakup todo? >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello all: >>>> I'm trying to transfer, and applying for scholarships and all that I'd >>>> like to be able to make some contributions to projects that I can note. >>>> I'm interested in learning more about kernel programming, and I figured >>>> I'd start by working on something I use almost daily. I'm curious then >>>> if there's some sort of todo or improvements speakup could have to it. >>>> I'd also be curious if someone has thought about moving it to >>>> userspace--as far as I know, the only thing that we really need the >>>> kernel for would be hardware speech (and since serial ports are dying >>>> out that could be a dead point), and accessing the console directly. >>>> How >>>> easy would it be then, to have speakup run in userspace, but access a >>>> smaller cut-down version of itself in the kernel to provide the access >>>> to the console we need? >>>> We could use sequence files and access the console through /proc. It >>>> could return a file of 2-byte chars, which I believe is how it works >>>> now--one byte is the color, and the other byte is the ascii value. The >>>> sequence file would just iterate over the console's lines. I'm also >>>> curious how we'd handle something like key presses like caps+u to move >>>> up a line etc. >>>> >>>> If I'm way off here, I'd still like to help out if possible; is there a >>>> todo list around, or stuff people would like to see done? If there are >>>> people willing to answer questions from time to time in terms of the >>>> kernel programming, since that's something I've not done before, I'm >>>> game to start coding. >>>> >>>> Another question is then, how do people catch panics? Since I'm not >>>> quite cool enough to write code that just works, I'm sure I'll be >>>> dealing with panics, but I can't see them on the console and usually >>>> it's when speakup goes boom anyway. >>>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Speakup mailing list >>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca >>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Speakup mailing list >>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca >>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup at braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
