Well, I'm a speakup user and I use NVDA on windows and it uses some similar keys than speakup to review the text. I don't need JAWS keys and if I need to choose I prefer the actual situation. El 16-09-2012 19:44, Littlefield, Tyler escribi?: > OK. so you want keys likeys like Jaws's keybindings to work. so lets > say I bind up arrow to caps+u, down arrow to caps+o. How exactly do > you want someone to uh, move up and down in the terminal now? Lets now > bind caps+j and caps+l to left and right, respectively. Awesome, now I > can't move around and edit parts of my command, this is great. Lets > set up key bindings for highlight tracking, shall we? Well snap, Jaws > doesn't appear to have a tracking option that I can copy that keybind > for, wo is me... I'll need to leave that one alone. > > Speakup works a lot differently than Jaws does. You have screen review > commands, but Jaws lets you move up and down left and right through > text presented in windows, edit boxes etc. Making it where the user > could move up and down around the screen with the arrow keys kind of > kills programs that use those keys, like the handy editors, for example. > Since you want these key bindings, would you mind clarifying how you > expect this to work? > On 9/16/2012 4:42 PM, Glenn wrote: >> I have tried to get folks to switch to Linux, but it is difficult, >> as people like what is familiar to them. >> The situation on the other list, the Orca list I think, was that I am on >> digest on that list, and I did not reply to the thread subject, I'm >> not sure >> how to do that from digest mode, which on that instance, was >> regarding key >> bindings in Orca, but I wrote a new thread with a similar subject >> line, and >> some folks thought it had nothing to do with that subject on that list. >> But yes, I am trying to get the Linux community to wake up to this need. >> In fact, in Windows, the program Window Eyes finally smartened up and >> used >> JFW key bindings. >> It may be easy for someone who knows how to make new key bindings, >> but not >> for a new user. >> If it is really fairly easy to make a new set of key bindings, then why >> doesn't someone just do it, and make it an option for new users, like >> Window >> Eyes did? >> Glenn >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jason Miller" <hobbgoblin79 at gmail.com> >> To: "Glenn" <glennervin at gmail.com>; "Speakup is a screen review >> system for >> Linux." <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> >> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 5:13 PM >> Subject: Re: speakup todo? >> >> >> Hello. >> >> Let me start by this first. You've been on several lists, bitching and >> complaining about everyone switching to JFW keybindings. The first time >> I saw it, you went to the wrong list to complain about something not >> sharing bindings with JFW that wasn't even the right list. I said it >> there, adn I'll say it here again. If not having JFW bindings was going >> to be a killer for the blind, then things like Orca, Speakup, Emacs, >> Voice Over, along with *coughs* Window Eyes, and NVDA on Windows >> wouldn't exist. To put your argument to a rest, if what you said were >> true, then why are so many people switching away from jaws, just >> speaking alone of windows, and going to NVDA or Window Eyes, let alone >> those that are migrating to other *nix based systems? I don't know what >> kind of personal crusade you are on, but from what I've seen, this is >> nothing more than you trying to troll. >> >> Secondly, like I said, he's been on several lists complaining about no >> one in the linux world using the JFW based keybindings. This >> conversation could go on forever, but it would be just feeding a troll. >> If everyone here has noticed, he's hijacked Tyler's thread, just to stir >> up trouble. He seems to do that elsewhere on other Linux accessibility >> lists, and when someone points out a valid argument, he seems to get >> frustrated, and go away. >> >> *shrugs* if you've really taught computers to the blind, then you would >> understand that they are willing to learn what works. Not everyone needs >> the windows world, and not everyone wants to stay in that ecosystem. You >> don't go to every list, start complaining about how things should be >> like windows, and JAWS, otherwise like I've told you before, only JAWS >> would exist, and there would be no other accessibility programs out >> there. Basically it comes down to this, and this is why I am not too >> sure about what you say about teaching those with vision impairments how >> to use technology. You teach someone who doesn't know different >> techniques, teach them different systems that would fit their needs, and >> you let them decide. You don't force a single way onto them, and go >> everywhere else that isn't of that way to stir up trouble. >> >> Anyway, end of my rant towards this guy. >> >> On 09/16/2012 05:51 PM, Glenn wrote: >>> Actually, it is this attitude among the sighted, that keeps most >>> technology >>> from being made accessible to the Blind. >>> Wow. >>> Glenn >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Alonzo Cuellar"<mariachiac at gmail.com> >>> To: "Glenn"<glennervin at gmail.com>; "Speakup is a screen review >>> system for >>> Linux."<speakup at braille.uwo.ca> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 4:38 PM >>> Subject: Re: speakup todo? >>> >>> >>> I think the key bindings are fine. There is no trouble with them at >>> all. >>> Always be able to expand your mind set. Even if little progress is >>> made. >>> After all, you get more advantages from learning the way other screen >>> readers work. >>> I can see where the option might be useful, but if you don't learn >>> it full >>> force and always stay trapped in the way jaws works, then you'll never >>> expand your horizons. >>> people come to linux expecting it to be something like windows. Its not >>> and >>> it probably never will be similar to windows. Its made for you to >>> explore, >>> etc. >>> I was forced in using linux due to an accident I had with my computer. >>> That >>> was fine by me though. Ever since then I prefer the unix variances >>> weather >>> is be linux or mac. >>> I'm no programmer by any means, but I do enjoy working with other >>> operating >>> systems. >>> The argument that only techies spend the time to learn new keyboard >>> commands >>> is always widely used. I consider that as an excuse. Everyone can learn >>> how >>> to use a device weather it be a phone or computer. Maybe the person may >>> have >>> difficulty and may not excel where in mastering it, but thats ok. >>> You can >>> apply this to any situation. >>> If we were to stop learning? Then we would never excel and stay >>> trapped in >>> the mind frame that this or that is to hard. >>> Learn while you still can. Once you get older it gets harder to >>> learn and >>> thats where it might be a problem. >>> >>> Alonzo >>> >>> >>> On Sep 16, 2012, at 3:59 PM, Glenn<glennervin at cableone.net> wrote: >>> >>>> That is the kind of thinking that will keep Linux in the shadows. >>>> I teach people how to use screenreaders, and people have a hard enough >>>> time >>>> switching from the mouse to all these keyboard commands. >>>> When people begrudgingly learn JFW keyboard mappings to some >>>> degree, do >>>> you >>>> think they will willing go out to learn different key mappings? >>>> Only the techie types do that. >>>> Glenn >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Littlefield, Tyler"<tyler at tysdomain.com> >>>> To: "Glenn"<glennervin at gmail.com>; "Speakup is a screen review >>>> system for >>>> Linux."<speakup at braille.uwo.ca> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 3:39 PM >>>> Subject: Re: speakup todo? >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm not really to worried about JFW key mappings honestly. First it's >>>> sort of weird, but mainly if they can't get used to using different >>>> keys, they're never going to live on Linux, at least not in the cli. >>>> On 9/16/2012 2:34 PM, Glenn wrote: >>>>> The big one for SpeakUp would be for it to have the option to >>>>> switch to >>>>> JFW >>>>> key mappings. >>>>> This will allow many people to switch to Linux easily. >>>>> Microsoft did this with MS Word, allowing people to use Word >>>>> Perfect key >>>>> mappings. >>>>> I think this is the only way Linux will ever become any more >>>>> popular to >>>>> screenreader users. >>>>> Glenn >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Littlefield, Tyler"<tyler at tysdomain.com> >>>>> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." >>>>> <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 1:17 PM >>>>> Subject: speakup todo? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hello all: >>>>> I'm trying to transfer, and applying for scholarships and all that >>>>> I'd >>>>> like to be able to make some contributions to projects that I can >>>>> note. >>>>> I'm interested in learning more about kernel programming, and I >>>>> figured >>>>> I'd start by working on something I use almost daily. I'm curious >>>>> then >>>>> if there's some sort of todo or improvements speakup could have to >>>>> it. >>>>> I'd also be curious if someone has thought about moving it to >>>>> userspace--as far as I know, the only thing that we really need the >>>>> kernel for would be hardware speech (and since serial ports are dying >>>>> out that could be a dead point), and accessing the console >>>>> directly. How >>>>> easy would it be then, to have speakup run in userspace, but access a >>>>> smaller cut-down version of itself in the kernel to provide the >>>>> access >>>>> to the console we need? >>>>> We could use sequence files and access the console through /proc. It >>>>> could return a file of 2-byte chars, which I believe is how it works >>>>> now--one byte is the color, and the other byte is the ascii value. >>>>> The >>>>> sequence file would just iterate over the console's lines. I'm also >>>>> curious how we'd handle something like key presses like caps+u to >>>>> move >>>>> up a line etc. >>>>> >>>>> If I'm way off here, I'd still like to help out if possible; is >>>>> there a >>>>> todo list around, or stuff people would like to see done? If there >>>>> are >>>>> people willing to answer questions from time to time in terms of the >>>>> kernel programming, since that's something I've not done before, I'm >>>>> game to start coding. >>>>> >>>>> Another question is then, how do people catch panics? Since I'm not >>>>> quite cool enough to write code that just works, I'm sure I'll be >>>>> dealing with panics, but I can't see them on the console and usually >>>>> it's when speakup goes boom anyway. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >>>> fool; he >>>> that >>>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Speakup mailing list >>>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca >>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Speakup mailing list >>>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca >>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Speakup mailing list >>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca >>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Speakup mailing list >>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca >>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >> > >
