And that is the problem -- I wonder if there is any way to do both -- after all the serial console must be done pretty early in the process and maybe we could switch to some other access method later on? If we can't get the early boot messages or other kernel information, then speakup may as well be in user space altogether, but that would be a real sad thing for me at any rate. Maybe speakup can't ever be included in the mainstream kernel because of these strange requirements -- I am not sure. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici covici at ccs.covici.com