lol. I use debian because to a point I just want some stuff to work. but at the same time if I want to tinker I can. I found this to be true with redhat as well. even though it comes with things working prety much out of the box, I could still get in and tinker. there's no point attacking another distro just because of how it comes in it's box. it don't matter in the end it's linux and we can al do what we want with it. providing of course you're abiding by all legislature that you're required to abide by whereever you may be,. -- Shaun Oliver "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person." email: shaun.oliver at optusnet.com.au WEB: http://blindman.homelinux.org/~blindman/ IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666 IRCNICK: blindman