one other thing that got brought up on the slug list in relation to this shite, was that alot of the hardware that now is able to work onder GNU/Linux has been made so by way of uh hem uh hem reverse engineering. in some places afaik that flies in the face of various copyright laws and treaties and the like but afaik it's not ilegal in australia as of yet. and it's those people that reverse engineered those bits and pieces we have to thank for the good quality drivers we have under linux today. -- Shaun Oliver "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person." email: shaun.oliver at optusnet.com.au WEB: http://blindman.homelinux.org/~blindman/ IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666 IRCNICK: blindman