Ann: Good post. And, I certainly have no quarrel with your experience. I do want to point out, however, that there are many of us who use emacs very profitably with speakup. I recognize, for my part, that this sounds incredible to many with deep emacspeak experience, but it is nevertheless true. Given this fact, you haven't really contrasted the two, imho. Furthermore, using speakup by no means limits one to OS access alone. That's just simply untrue. In fact, the truth of the matter is that speakup facilitates access to many more applications than emacspeak, because it doesn't require someone to sit down and write a special interface for each and every application, as Raman does when he "speechifies" (his word, not mine) some app that runs in the emacs environment. No, I think if you're going to make an argument here, you're necessarily going to find it reduced to claims of superior access to particular functions. For my part, I don't buy that either. I don't find one or the other superior, just different. And that's A-OK by me. On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Ann Parsons wrote: > Hi all, > > I dunnow why I'm in this argument. Hmmmm, yes, maybe I do. I think > it's because I like and use both Emacspeak and Speakup simultaneously > all day everyday. Let me see if I can explain Yvonne's position, > and she can correct me if I'm wrong. > > If you start with Emacspeak, as I did, you are starting from the same > position as a noncomputer user or a user who's experience has been > limited. Yes, the learning curve is steep, and you must learn Emacs > while learning Emacspeak. this is no different from the Windows user > who wants to learn Windows, Window-eyes and MSWord at the same time. > The position is really the same. The task here in the main is to > learn the editor, not to learn about the OS. This is good if you want > to be proficient in an editor and you have need of one that will > accept add-on programs and use the same types of commands for all > these add-ons, much as does learning all the Windows stuff carry over > from appl to app. Emacs is a fantastic editor, my personal opinion. > Once learned, it is powerful and versatile and its desktop is handy > and so on. For the new Linux user who has an immediate need for > programs rather than knowledge of the OS, Emacspeak is perhaps the > best route to go. Is this what you mean, Yvonne? > > Now, Janina, speakup is fantastic too, but for a vastly different > reason. Speakup gives you access to the Linux OS, the underpinning > for the software. It allows you to get at the nitty-gritty behind the > user-friendly interface and gaze at the guts of the OS, if you will. > the reason Speakup is so simple to use is that it is a tool for > getting at other programs and to the OS itself. It is not an editor. > Sure one can learn to run speakup in an hour, however, it won't do you > a hoot in Hell if you don't have some idea as to what > program/interface commands you want to access and why. One is still > faced with the task of learning application software. Just a flea in > your ear, I came to realize the true value of Speakup only recently > when I started wanting to read about the OS and to understand what the > heck was going on with it. This interest came after, way after I had > alreadly learned Emacs and Emacspeak. > > >From reading the newbie's posts, it sounds to me as if the need is for > application software rather than for training in the OS. That may > come in time, which is why I'm for installing both programs; Emacspeak > and Speakup. If I were going to give advice, or an opinion based on > the newbie's post, I'd vote for installing Emacspeak first, then move > on to Speakup and learn about the OS. > > Has that clarified anything ladies? Please let's not fight here, it's > so detros. And besides, it confuses the people who are asking our > advice. > > Ann P. > > -- Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and Development Governmental Relations Group American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) Email: janina at afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) http://www.openebook.org
