In response to the issues raised about windows mailer crap, let me offer some suggestions that should make things more bareable with minimal fus: 1. Yes, if using outlook, please, please turn off HTML messages. Sorry, don't remember exactly which options to set but it is doable and I've done it before in the past. At work, I have outlook set to create plain text messages by default. 2. for Pine users until the outlook stuff gets cleaned up, there is something you can do to make the impact of HTML minimal. Go into Pine's setup options and change settings. Enable the 'prefer-plain-text' option; this will put plain text portions first and cause the reader to go through less noise to get to the message body. There's still a couple lines mentioning the other part but I find it to be a lot better. 3. Another deal is the character sets. I sure wish pine could offer an option to turn this off. If as many people as possible can do this, set your default character set to iso-8859-1. If everyone does this, we won't get those three bothersome lines at the top of the message. I do realize there are international folks who lagitimately use other char sets but at least the windows-12343 or whatever would go away. Just some ideas.