Em 26-11-2011 03:55, Oliver Endriss escreveu: > On Friday 25 November 2011 23:06:34 Andreas Oberritter wrote: >> On 25.11.2011 17:51, Manu Abraham wrote: >>> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Mauro Carvalho Chehab >>> <mchehab@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> Em 25-11-2011 14:03, Andreas Oberritter escreveu: >>>>> On 25.11.2011 16:38, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote: >>>>>> Em 25-11-2011 12:41, Andreas Oberritter escreveu: >>>>>>> On 25.11.2011 14:48, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote: >>>>>>>> If your complain is about the removal of audio.h, video.h >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We're back on topic, thank you! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and osd.h, then my proposal is >>>>>>>> to keep it there, writing a text that they are part of a deprecated API, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's exactly what I proposed. Well, you shouldn't write "deprecated", >>>>>>> because it's not. Just explain - inside this text - when V4L2 should be >>>>>>> preferred over DVB. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is deprecated, as the API is not growing to fulfill today's needs, and >>>>>> no patches adding new stuff to it to it will be accepted anymore. >>>>> >>>>> Haha, nice one. "It doesn't grow because I don't allow it to." Great! >>>> >>>> No. It didn't grow because nobody cared with it for years: >>>> >>>> Since 2.6.12-rc2 (start of git history), no changes ever happened at osd.h. >>>> >>>> Excluding Hans changes for using it on a pure V4L device, and other trivial >>>> patches not related to API changes, the last API change on audio.h and video.h >>>> was this patch: >>>> commit f05cce863fa399dd79c5aa3896d608b8b86d8030 >>>> Author: Andreas Oberritter <obi@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> Date: Mon Feb 27 00:09:00 2006 -0300 >>>> >>>> V4L/DVB (3375): Add AUDIO_GET_PTS and VIDEO_GET_PTS ioctls >>>> >>>> (yet not used on any upstream driver) >>>> >>>> An then: >>>> commit 1da177e4c3f41524e886b7f1b8a0c1fc7321cac2 >>>> Author: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> Date: Sat Apr 16 15:20:36 2005 -0700 >>>> >>>> Linux-2.6.12-rc2 >>>> >>>> No changes adding support for any in-kernel driver were ever added there. >>>> >>>> So, it didn't grow over the last 5 or 6 years because nobody submitted >>>> driver patches requiring new things or _even_ using it. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> but keeping >>>>>>>> the rest of the patches >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Which ones? >>>>>> >>>>>> V4L2, ivtv and DocBook patches. >>>>> >>>>> Fine. >>>>> >>>>>>>> and not accepting anymore any submission using them >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why? First you complain about missing users and then don't want to allow >>>>>>> any new ones. >>>>>> >>>>>> I didn't complain about missing users. What I've said is that, between a >>>>>> one-user API and broad used APIs like ALSA and V4L2, the choice is to freeze >>>>>> the one-user API and mark it as deprecated. >>>>> >>>>> Your assumtion about only one user still isn't true. >>>>> >>>>>> Also, today's needs are properly already covered by V4L/ALSA/MC/subdev. >>>>>> It is easier to add what's missing there for DVB than to work the other >>>>>> way around, and deprecate V4L2/ALSA/MC/subdev. >>>>> >>>>> Yes. Please! Add it! But leave the DVB API alone! >>>>> >>>>>>>> , removing >>>>>>>> the ioctl's that aren't used by av7110 from them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's just stupid. I can easily provide a list of used and valuable >>>>>>> ioctls, which need to remain present in order to not break userspace >>>>>>> applications. >>>>>> >>>>>> Those ioctl's aren't used by any Kernel driver, and not even documented. >>>>>> So, why to keep/maintain them? >>>>> >>>>> If you already deprecated it, why bother deleting random stuff from it >>>>> that people are using? >>>>> >>>>> There's a difference in keeping and maintaining something. You don't >>>>> need to maintain ioctls that haven't changed in years. Deleting >>>>> something is more work than letting it there to be used by those who >>>>> want to. >>>> >>>> Ok. Let's just keep the headers as is, just adding a comment that it is now >>>> considered superseded. >> >> Thank you! This is a step into the right direction. >> >>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/superseded >>> >>> to set aside or cause to be set aside as void, useless, or obsolete, usually >>> in favor of something mentioned; make obsolete: They superseded the >>> old statute with a new one. >>> >>> No, that's not acceptable. New DVB devices as they come will make use >>> of the API and API changes might be applied. >> >> Honestly, I think we all should accept this proposal and just hope that >> the comment is going to be written objectively. > > 'Hoping' is not enough for me anymore. I am deeply disappointed. > Mauro and Hans have severely damaged my trust, that v4ldvb APIs are > stable in Linux, and how things are handled in this project. > > So I request a public statement from the subsystem maintainer that > 1. The DVB Decoder API will not be removed. > 2. It can be updated if required (e.g. adding a missing function). > 3. New drivers are allowed to use this architecture. > 4. These driver will be accepted, if they follow the kernel standards. > > The reason is simple: I need to know, whether this project is still > worth investing some time, or it is better to do something else. > What it is agreed so far is to keep it there untouched, doing the evolution for the decoder API via V4L2, in order to merge efforts on decoding features, and use the proper existing systems to output decoded audio and video streams (ALSA and V4L2). In other words, (item 1) the headers will stay there, with a note pointing that the evolution will be via V4L2. As the evolution will follow another direction, I don't agree it your items 2, 3 and 4. Regards, Mauro. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-media" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
