Em 26-11-2011 09:32, Mauro Carvalho Chehab escreveu: > Em 26-11-2011 03:55, Oliver Endriss escreveu: >> On Friday 25 November 2011 23:06:34 Andreas Oberritter wrote: >>> On 25.11.2011 17:51, Manu Abraham wrote: >>>> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Mauro Carvalho Chehab >>>> <mchehab@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>> Em 25-11-2011 14:03, Andreas Oberritter escreveu: >>>>>> On 25.11.2011 16:38, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote: >>>>>>> Em 25-11-2011 12:41, Andreas Oberritter escreveu: >>>>>>>> On 25.11.2011 14:48, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote: >>>>>>>>> If your complain is about the removal of audio.h, video.h >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We're back on topic, thank you! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> and osd.h, then my proposal is >>>>>>>>> to keep it there, writing a text that they are part of a deprecated API, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's exactly what I proposed. Well, you shouldn't write "deprecated", >>>>>>>> because it's not. Just explain - inside this text - when V4L2 should be >>>>>>>> preferred over DVB. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is deprecated, as the API is not growing to fulfill today's needs, and >>>>>>> no patches adding new stuff to it to it will be accepted anymore. >>>>>> >>>>>> Haha, nice one. "It doesn't grow because I don't allow it to." Great! >>>>> >>>>> No. It didn't grow because nobody cared with it for years: >>>>> >>>>> Since 2.6.12-rc2 (start of git history), no changes ever happened at osd.h. >>>>> >>>>> Excluding Hans changes for using it on a pure V4L device, and other trivial >>>>> patches not related to API changes, the last API change on audio.h and video.h >>>>> was this patch: >>>>> commit f05cce863fa399dd79c5aa3896d608b8b86d8030 >>>>> Author: Andreas Oberritter <obi@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>> Date: Mon Feb 27 00:09:00 2006 -0300 >>>>> >>>>> V4L/DVB (3375): Add AUDIO_GET_PTS and VIDEO_GET_PTS ioctls >>>>> >>>>> (yet not used on any upstream driver) >>>>> >>>>> An then: >>>>> commit 1da177e4c3f41524e886b7f1b8a0c1fc7321cac2 >>>>> Author: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>> Date: Sat Apr 16 15:20:36 2005 -0700 >>>>> >>>>> Linux-2.6.12-rc2 >>>>> >>>>> No changes adding support for any in-kernel driver were ever added there. >>>>> >>>>> So, it didn't grow over the last 5 or 6 years because nobody submitted >>>>> driver patches requiring new things or _even_ using it. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> but keeping >>>>>>>>> the rest of the patches >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Which ones? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> V4L2, ivtv and DocBook patches. >>>>>> >>>>>> Fine. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> and not accepting anymore any submission using them >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Why? First you complain about missing users and then don't want to allow >>>>>>>> any new ones. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I didn't complain about missing users. What I've said is that, between a >>>>>>> one-user API and broad used APIs like ALSA and V4L2, the choice is to freeze >>>>>>> the one-user API and mark it as deprecated. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your assumtion about only one user still isn't true. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, today's needs are properly already covered by V4L/ALSA/MC/subdev. >>>>>>> It is easier to add what's missing there for DVB than to work the other >>>>>>> way around, and deprecate V4L2/ALSA/MC/subdev. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes. Please! Add it! But leave the DVB API alone! >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> , removing >>>>>>>>> the ioctl's that aren't used by av7110 from them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's just stupid. I can easily provide a list of used and valuable >>>>>>>> ioctls, which need to remain present in order to not break userspace >>>>>>>> applications. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Those ioctl's aren't used by any Kernel driver, and not even documented. >>>>>>> So, why to keep/maintain them? >>>>>> >>>>>> If you already deprecated it, why bother deleting random stuff from it >>>>>> that people are using? >>>>>> >>>>>> There's a difference in keeping and maintaining something. You don't >>>>>> need to maintain ioctls that haven't changed in years. Deleting >>>>>> something is more work than letting it there to be used by those who >>>>>> want to. >>>>> >>>>> Ok. Let's just keep the headers as is, just adding a comment that it is now >>>>> considered superseded. >>> >>> Thank you! This is a step into the right direction. >>> >>>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/superseded >>>> >>>> to set aside or cause to be set aside as void, useless, or obsolete, usually >>>> in favor of something mentioned; make obsolete: They superseded the >>>> old statute with a new one. >>>> >>>> No, that's not acceptable. New DVB devices as they come will make use >>>> of the API and API changes might be applied. >>> >>> Honestly, I think we all should accept this proposal and just hope that >>> the comment is going to be written objectively. >> >> 'Hoping' is not enough for me anymore. I am deeply disappointed. >> Mauro and Hans have severely damaged my trust, that v4ldvb APIs are >> stable in Linux, and how things are handled in this project. >> >> So I request a public statement from the subsystem maintainer that >> 1. The DVB Decoder API will not be removed. >> 2. It can be updated if required (e.g. adding a missing function). >> 3. New drivers are allowed to use this architecture. >> 4. These driver will be accepted, if they follow the kernel standards. >> >> The reason is simple: I need to know, whether this project is still >> worth investing some time, or it is better to do something else. >> > > What it is agreed so far is to keep it there untouched, doing the evolution > for the decoder API via V4L2, in order to merge efforts on decoding > features, and use the proper existing systems to output decoded audio and > video streams (ALSA and V4L2). > > In other words, (item 1) the headers will stay there, with a note pointing > that the evolution will be via V4L2. As the evolution will follow another > direction, I don't agree it your items 2, 3 and 4. A small addendum: drivers can still be merged at staging. I can help the efforts of porting them to use ALSA/V4L2. Regards, Mauro -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-media" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
