Re: [RFCv2 PATCH 12/12] Remove audio.h, video.h and osd.h.

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On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Oliver Endriss <o.endriss@xxxxxx> wrote:
> On Friday 25 November 2011 23:06:34 Andreas Oberritter wrote:
>> On 25.11.2011 17:51, Manu Abraham wrote:
>> > On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Mauro Carvalho Chehab
>> > <mchehab@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> Em 25-11-2011 14:03, Andreas Oberritter escreveu:
>> >>> On 25.11.2011 16:38, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote:
>> >>>> Em 25-11-2011 12:41, Andreas Oberritter escreveu:
>> >>>>> On 25.11.2011 14:48, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote:
>> >>>>>> If your complain is about the removal of audio.h, video.h
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> We're back on topic, thank you!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> and osd.h, then my proposal is
>> >>>>>> to keep it there, writing a text that they are part of a deprecated API,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> That's exactly what I proposed. Well, you shouldn't write "deprecated",
>> >>>>> because it's not. Just explain - inside this text - when V4L2 should be
>> >>>>> preferred over DVB.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It is deprecated, as the API is not growing to fulfill today's needs, and
>> >>>> no patches adding new stuff to it to it will be accepted anymore.
>> >>>
>> >>> Haha, nice one. "It doesn't grow because I don't allow it to." Great!
>> >>
>> >> No. It didn't grow because nobody cared with it for years:
>> >>
>> >> Since 2.6.12-rc2 (start of git history), no changes ever happened at osd.h.
>> >>
>> >> Excluding Hans changes for using it on a pure V4L device, and other trivial
>> >> patches not related to API changes, the last API change on audio.h and video.h
>> >> was this patch:
>> >>        commit f05cce863fa399dd79c5aa3896d608b8b86d8030
>> >>        Author: Andreas Oberritter <obi@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>        Date:   Mon Feb 27 00:09:00 2006 -0300
>> >>
>> >>            V4L/DVB (3375): Add AUDIO_GET_PTS and VIDEO_GET_PTS ioctls
>> >>
>> >>        (yet not used on any upstream driver)
>> >>
>> >> An then:
>> >>        commit 1da177e4c3f41524e886b7f1b8a0c1fc7321cac2
>> >>        Author: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>        Date:   Sat Apr 16 15:20:36 2005 -0700
>> >>
>> >>            Linux-2.6.12-rc2
>> >>
>> >> No changes adding support for any in-kernel driver were ever added there.
>> >>
>> >> So, it didn't grow over the last 5 or 6 years because nobody submitted
>> >> driver patches requiring new things or _even_ using it.
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>> but keeping
>> >>>>>> the rest of the patches
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Which ones?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> V4L2, ivtv and DocBook patches.
>> >>>
>> >>> Fine.
>> >>>
>> >>>>>> and not accepting anymore any submission using them
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Why? First you complain about missing users and then don't want to allow
>> >>>>> any new ones.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I didn't complain about missing users. What I've said is that, between a
>> >>>> one-user API and broad used APIs like ALSA and V4L2, the choice is to freeze
>> >>>> the one-user API and mark it as deprecated.
>> >>>
>> >>> Your assumtion about only one user still isn't true.
>> >>>
>> >>>> Also, today's needs are properly already covered by V4L/ALSA/MC/subdev.
>> >>>> It is easier to add what's missing there for DVB than to work the other
>> >>>> way around, and deprecate V4L2/ALSA/MC/subdev.
>> >>>
>> >>> Yes. Please! Add it! But leave the DVB API alone!
>> >>>
>> >>>>>> , removing
>> >>>>>> the ioctl's that aren't used by av7110 from them.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> That's just stupid. I can easily provide a list of used and valuable
>> >>>>> ioctls, which need to remain present in order to not break userspace
>> >>>>> applications.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Those ioctl's aren't used by any Kernel driver, and not even documented.
>> >>>> So, why to keep/maintain them?
>> >>>
>> >>> If you already deprecated it, why bother deleting random stuff from it
>> >>> that people are using?
>> >>>
>> >>> There's a difference in keeping and maintaining something. You don't
>> >>> need to maintain ioctls that haven't changed in years. Deleting
>> >>> something is more work than letting it there to be used by those who
>> >>> want to.
>> >>
>> >> Ok. Let's just keep the headers as is, just adding a comment that it is now
>> >> considered superseded.
>>
>> Thank you! This is a step into the right direction.
>>
>> > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/superseded
>> >
>> > to set aside or cause to be set aside as void, useless, or obsolete, usually
>> > in favor of something mentioned; make obsolete: They superseded the
>> > old statute with a new one.
>> >
>> > No, that's not acceptable. New DVB devices as they come will make use
>> > of the API and API changes might be applied.
>>
>> Honestly, I think we all should accept this proposal and just hope that
>> the comment is going to be written objectively.
>
> 'Hoping' is not enough for me anymore. I am deeply disappointed.
> Mauro and Hans have severely damaged my trust, that v4ldvb APIs are
> stable in Linux, and how things are handled in this project.
>
> So I request a public statement from the subsystem maintainer that
> 1. The DVB Decoder API will not be removed.
> 2. It can be updated if required (e.g. adding a missing function).
> 3. New drivers are allowed to use this architecture.
> 4. These driver will be accepted, if they follow the kernel standards.
>
> The reason is simple: I need to know, whether this project is still
> worth investing some time, or it is better to do something else.
>


I for one, share the same thoughts as Oliver. Mauro has always been
too clever with words, to play politics and hence my lack of trust in Mauro.
So, I request a statement from Mauro just as Oliver stated.

+1

Regards,
Manu
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