On Mon, 26 Jan 2009, Christoph Pfister wrote: > > On Fri, 23 Jan 2009, Tobias Stöber wrote:> >> There is a complete listing including parameters from "in area" and also> >> "out of area" (but with reception in the area) transmitters at> >> http://www.ueberallfernsehen.de/data/senderliste_25_11_2008.pdf > I've quickly built a collection of scan files according to this> document - do you mind having a look at them (although the change that> will happen in Hamburg sometime and possibly other changes that> happened since 25th November aren't considered yet)? Certainly. Just as a background, for the one or zero persons who care,the situation in germany can be vaguely described thus: There exist national public service, regional public service,national/regional private commercial, and local broadcasters. In general, the local and private broadcasters focus theirattention on large markets (Berlin, Frankfurt/Main, Hamburg,München, and so on), and are not to be found so much outsidethese limited regions -- with exceptions, like in Oberbayernfrom the Wendelstein, but while the public service broadcastershave a remit to reach the general population, the privatebroadcasters have chosen to focus their financial investmentin those markets where they can reach a larger audienceshare for little investment. That is, the RTL and Pro7Sat1families can be seen in, say, Hamburg, but far from thesemetro areas, you are pretty much limited to a subset of thepublic broadcasters. Of the national and regional public broadcasters, the DVB-Tsituation can be pretty much described as thusly... There is a truly national broadcaster, the second germanbroadcaster, ZDF, which has a multiplex known as ZDFmobilwhich is available nationally, and is identical whetherreceived in Flensburg or Passau (hey, no heckling, that wasa beloved train ride for me years ago). The other nominally national broadcaster, ARD, known as thefirst german broadcaster ("Das Erste"), suffers regionalisationboth through a local identity in a particular Bundesland,as well as a regional DVB-T multiplex management that doesnot always translate well to match those of neighbouringlands. This regionalisation is due to sub-management by a thirdparty, which, perhaps as a super-regional manager, isresponsible for more than one Bundesland (for our originalcase of Hamburg, this would be NDR, together with itsdaughter Radio Bremen). These `third parties' takentogether form that first german broadcaster, as well ashaving their own distinct regional identities. The practical example of this would be that while onecan see the same content via ZDFmobil anywhere, theso-called ARD multiplex may contain, by region, EinsPlusor EinsFestival, or perhaps in that region, that regionalmanager's so-called ``Dritte'' (third, after ARD beingfirst and ZDF being second) programme. In other words, nationally, one can receive the ZDFmultiplex, plus two others, which will depend on howthe regional management has decided to configure theirmultiplexes. Services such as Phoenix and `arte' willbe available nationally, while the `dritte' multiplexwill contain a selection of out-of-area regionals ofinterest due to geography or whatever. Now, while ZDF has a unified national service, the sameis not necessarily true for what you can receive ina selected Bundesland. For example, in Hessen, dependingon where you are, you may be able to receive the localprogramming from the nearest Bundesland; in the southof Bayern you can see SWR Baden-Württemberg but temporarilynot Hessen (or the DVB-H which replaced it), while inthe north you will instead see `mdr', although you mayhave previously received SWR, which is the reason thatBad Mergentheim in BaWü, near the border, will need itsown DVB-T transmitter sometime this year. Now, anyway, for the zero readers who care, that's mysummary of german public broadcasters approach to DVB-T.I'm happy to be corrected, because I'm an outsider. So, anyway, there's been forces to cause merging of thedifferent regional broadcasters; NDR covers severalBundesländer, with Radio Bremen retaining a bit ofindependence; SWR has engulfed SWF and pretty-much-identical-save-for-a-few-half-hour-bits-here-and-thereprogramming can be seen on SWR-RP, SWR-BW, and evenSR from the Saarland. This can probably be seen bylooking at the different frequency plans, although Iam too lazy and disinterested to do so now. Anyway,the Genève frequency allocations look to be based ongeographical locations, independent of the regionalbroadcast administrator responsible. What am I saying by all this tripe? Well, there is aregional frequency allocation that is presently usedby the public service broadcasters, but so far hasseen spotty adoption by the local and commercialbroadcasters apart from a handful of larger metroregions, leaving most of the land by area dependentupon satellite reception for these programmes. Anyway, now that I have digressed in an attempt toshow that I can claim to know what I'm talking abouteven after a few beers, here's my feedback: The following seems wrong, because of the problem Inoted in the message to which you replied: # DVB-T Hamburg# Created from http://ueberallfernsehen.de/data/dvb-t_deutschland_stand_25.11.08.pdf# T freq bw fec_hi fec_lo mod transmission-mode guard-interval hierarchyT 205500000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/8 NONET 490000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONET 490000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/8 NONET 530000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONET 546000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONET 546000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/8 NONET 570000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONET 570000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/8 NONET 626000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONET 626000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/8 NONET 674000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONET 674000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/8 NONET 754000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE You should notice the duplicated frequencies but withdiffering guard interval values. I suspect that 1/8is correct for a few more weeks at the single VHFfrequency, but I believe that 1/4 is the correctvalue for all duplicated UHF frequencies. In Niedersachsen, this frequency value leaped out atme as being wrong: T 563000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE These problems are no doubt due to errors in theoriginal source from which you snarfed the data.I suppose I could write a mail to be ignored to theresponsible parties... As an end-user (fnarr), some feedback: I find comments including consumer-channel-numbervery helpful, particularly when correct, so that Idon't have to refer to a lookup table when comparinga particular scanfile to press releases or otherconsumer-focussed propaganda, given that these almostexclusively give only the channel number. That is,grabbing a random file, and pardon any linewrap... T 538000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM64 8k 1/4 NONE # CH29: ARD Das Erste, EinsFestival, arte, Phoenix (TSMB/MDR1.1)T 546000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE # CH30: 3sat, ZDFDoku/KIKA, ZDF, ZDFInfo (ZDF)T 578000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM64 8k 1/4 NONE # CH34: MDR S-ANHALT, rbb Brandenburg, WDR Koeln, NDR FS NDS (TSMB/MDR2.2) ...the listed channel numbers complement the frequencyinformation and match the majority of what I wouldfind online or in print media. Now, as far as changes since Nov.2008, when a good numberof government drones were running about proclaiming thatthe digital switchover was complete, well, they weren'tquite right, but anyhow... There haven't been, as far as I know, any changes sincenovember. There are planned changes to one multiplexfrequency in Aalen (BW) and introduction of a new DVB-Tsite in Bad Mergentheim (BW) and Garmisch-Partenkirchen(BY), if not more, and eventually, abandoning presentVHF frequencies, seen in Berlin, parts of Bayern, and asnoted, Hamburg, for example. If I ever get around to a more detailed study of eachBundesland, I'll offer more feedback, although I haven'treceived any concerning my proposed enhancements to B-Wsome months ago, so it may not matter... Anyway, thanks for your work in merging these; that hascut out a good bit of time I'd spend doing this by hand. barry bouwsmaloser _______________________________________________linux-dvb users mailing listFor V4L/DVB development, please use instead linux-media@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@linuxtv.orghttp://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb
