On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 10:26:10PM -0500, Grekim wrote: > /Maybe neat on headphones, but definitely the wrong thing for > reproduction on speakers. Also bad for mono compatibility. > And since it's closed source it's not possible to change > this to normal panning, which would be a trivial exercise > otherwise./ > > I'd like to learn more about why it's so wrong. There's no one-line answer to that. To understand why it's wrong you have to work out how the signals from the two speakers combine at the ears and compare the result to what happens for a real sound source. For low frequencies the analysis is very simple, you can do it in two minutes just using pencil and paper. Just do it and you'll see. For mid an high frequencies it gets considerably more complex and a lot of psycho-acoustics is involved. The results go against simple intuition, which is why many people have some difficulty accepting them. Also consider to what happens when the stereo signals are summed to mono. If your panner is set slightly off-center, L and R will have nearly the same gain (since they need to be identical for a center source) and a delay between them of a fraction of a millisecond or so. Summing L and R will result in quite strong comb filter effects. > /I've got ~3TB of floating point files here, and I'm not going > to convert them just to be able to use a particular - any - SW./ > > Why did you record in floating point format if your A/D converters are not? Because I do not just record signals directly from the A/D converters, but also signals that have already had some processing and probably will have some more later. All serious audio processing in Linux (and in almost all environments where audio is processed digitally) is done in floating point format, for good reasons. Why should I convert each time I read or write a file ? That would only add errors. A/D and D/A converters are probably the only components in the chain that 'naturally' use an integer format. But even that isn't really true any more. Most high quality converters are not just the bare converter and an analog filter. They have some digital processing going on between the SW interface and the actual converters, e.g. most of the anti-alias filtering will be done digitally in an oversampling converter. And that processing could very well be done in FP format these days. Some high end sound cards (e.g. RME) have native floating point interfaces. There is nothing magic about the 2^16 or 2^24 analog levels that correspond exactly to integer sample values. Change your gain by 0.1 dB and they will be an entirely different set, as good or as bad as any. > / > The summing being exact is quite irrelevant if the rest isn't, > and doesn't need to be anyway./ > > Sorry it's not relevant to you. Aside for the latest version which > does use ALSA, I have about 4 C header files. So there's no libsend > file or anything like that. You could probably eliminate a lot of code by using something like libsndfile. And you would at least be able to read floating point files. If all filtering, effects, etc. is done in FP format, it's plain silly to convert to integer just to add some values. And adding also happens even when you don't see it explicitly. Any linear filter is defined by its impulse response. Depending on the type of filter that could be hundreds or even thousands of samples long. So every output sample is a weighted sum of hundreds or thousands of input samples even if not computed explicitly that way. Are you really claiming that doing that in FP is OK while adding a few signals on a mix bus isn't ? Regarding the latter, it may also help to analyse the situation a bit more rigorously before jumping to easy conclusions. It involves a bit of maths, but nothing esoterical. > /OK, then the info on your site is out of date.../ > > Don't think so. Quote from the Quick Start Guide: There are 3 text files that control Mixer4 and they must be kept in the same directory, at least for now, as the Mixer4 executable. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list Linux-audio-user@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
