On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Kees Cook <keescook@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Kees Cook <keescook@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Kees Cook <keescook@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Oleg Nesterov <oleg@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>> On 06/25, Andy Lutomirski wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Oleg Nesterov <oleg@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>> > On 06/25, Andy Lutomirski wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Write the filter, then smp_mb (or maybe a weaker barrier is okay), >>>>>>>> >> then set the bit. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Yes, exactly, this is what I meant. Plas rmb() in __secure_computing(). >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > But I still can't understand the rest of your discussion about the >>>>>>>> > ordering we need ;) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let me try again from scratch. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Currently there are three relevant variables: TIF_SECCOMP, >>>>>>>> seccomp.mode, and seccomp.filter. __secure_computing needs >>>>>>>> seccomp.mode and seccomp.filter to be in sync, and it wants (but >>>>>>>> doesn't really need) TIF_SECCOMP to be in sync as well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My suggestion is to rearrange it a bit. Move mode into seccomp.filter >>>>>>>> (so that filter == NULL implies no seccomp) and don't check >>>>>> >>>>>> This would require that we reimplement mode 1 seccomp via mode 2 >>>>>> filters. Which isn't too hard, but may add complexity. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> TIF_SECCOMP in secure_computing. Then turning on seccomp is entirely >>>>>>>> atomic except for the fact that the seccomp hooks won't be called if >>>>>>>> filter != NULL but !TIF_SECCOMP. This removes all ordering >>>>>>>> requirements. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ah, got it, thanks. Perhaps I missed somehing, but to me this looks like >>>>>>> unnecessary complication at first glance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We alredy have TIF_SECCOMP, we need it anyway, and we should only care >>>>>>> about the case when this bit is actually set, so that we can race with >>>>>>> the 1st call of __secure_computing(). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Otherwise we are fine: we can miss the new filter anyway, ->mode can't >>>>>>> be changed it is already nonzero. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alternatively, __secure_computing could still BUG_ON(!seccomp.filter). >>>>>>>> In that case, filter needs to be set before TIF_SECCOMP is set, but >>>>>>>> that's straightforward. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yep. And this is how seccomp_assign_mode() already works? It is called >>>>>>> after we change ->filter chain, it changes ->mode before set(TIF_SECCOMP) >>>>>>> just it lacks a barrier. >>>>>> >>>>>> Right, I think the best solution is to add the barrier. I was >>>>>> concerned that adding the read barrier in secure_computing would have >>>>>> a performance impact, though. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I can't speak for ARM, but I think that all of the read barriers are >>>>> essentially free on x86. (smp_mb is a very different story, but that >>>>> shouldn't be needed here.) >>>> >>>> It looks like SMP ARM issues dsb for rmb, which seems a bit expensive. >>>> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.dui0204g/CIHJFGFE.html >>>> >>>> If I skip the rmb in the secure_computing call before checking mode, >>>> it sounds like I run the risk of racing an out-of-order TIF_SECCOMP vs >>>> mode and filter. This seems unlikely to me, given an addition of the >>>> smp_mb__before_atomic() during the seccomp_assign_mode()? I guess I >>>> don't have a sense of how aggressively ARM might do data caching in >>>> this area. Could the other thread actually see TIF_SECCOMP get set but >>>> still have an out of date copy of seccomp.mode? >>>> >>>> I really want to avoid adding anything to the secure_computing() >>>> execution path. :( >>> >>> Hence my suggestion to make the ordering not matter. No ordering >>> requirement, no barriers. >> >> I may be misunderstanding something, but I think there's still an >> ordering problem. We'll have TIF_SECCOMP already, so if we enter >> secure_computing with a NULL filter, we'll kill the process. >> >> Merging .mode and .filter would remove one of the race failure paths: >> having TIF_SECCOMP and not having a mode set (leading to BUG). With >> the merge, we could still race and land in the same place as have >> TIF_SECCOMP and mode==2, but filter==NULL, leading to WARN and kill. > > You could just make secure_computing do nothing if filter == NULL. > It's probably faster to test that than TIF_SECCOMP anyway, since you > need to read the filter cacheline regardless, and testing a regular > variable for non-NULLness might be faster than an atomic bit test > operation. (Or may not -- I don't know.) I am uncomfortable about making filter == NULL be a "fail open" condition if TIF_SECCOMP is set. >> I guess the question is how large is the race risk on ARM? Is it >> possible to have TIF_SECCOMP that far out of sync for the thread? > > Dunno. I don't like leaving crashy known races around. Yeah, me too. Hrmpf. I will do some rmb() timing tests... -Kees -- Kees Cook Chrome OS Security -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-api" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
