In data venerdì 23 ottobre 2020 19:49:48 CEST, kkde@xxxxxxxxxxx ha scritto:
> On Fri, 23 Oct 2020 17:53:48 +0200
>
> Adrien Glauser <adrien.glauser@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA512
> >
> > Hi again,
> >
> > If no one on this list is available for discussing the topic quoted
> > below, would you guys be so kind as to point me to the right people?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Adrien
> >
> > Le jeudi 22 octobre 2020 à 22:53 +0200, Adrien Glauser a écrit :
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I am part of a group of volunteers helping our distribution update
> > > the user documentation, with the goal of improving the learning
> > > experience for new users.
> > >
> > > Now we all know Plasma has made tremendous progress with the wayland
> > > and xwayland sessions . Unfortunately, as far as our support channels
> > > are concerned, these improvements might not be readily enjoyable for
> > > Nvidia users -- which is not surprising after all, as the meme says.
> > > (Here I am talking about people who installed the proprietary driver,
> > > typically for a laptop with both an Intel integrated and Nvidia
> > > dedicated GPU. In this email I am talking about this category of
> > > users, and about no other category).
> > >
> > > Thus we want to make recommendations to our new users, whether fresh
> > > switchers from the non-Linux world, or Linux users coming from the
> > > GNOME world, where full wayland sessions are working OK for most
> > > including the category I am talking about.
> > >
> > > To make this assumption very clear: We feel like purely descriptive
> > > information is not enough, because users are owed clear disclaimers
> > > and warning signs when there is a live possibility that their sub
> > > menus will be glitching and logoff process freezing. For us it's not
> > > just about QA, it's also about basic respect for people who accepted
> > > to get out their comfort zone to step into the Linux world.
> > >
> > > Bearing in mind this context, I am asking you the following: What is
> > > the most honest and accurate thing to say to these users? Should we
> > > either:
> > >
> > > a) Recommend the xorg session (because it's the most stable), and
> > > make
> > > no other recommendation? (saying for example that the QA testing
> > > around
> > > the other two is lacking, or something along these lines?)
> > >
> > > b) Recommend the xorg session, and recommend against the xwayland and
> > > wayland? (saying what I believe to be true, that is, that the other
> > > two
> > > sessions make it impossible for them to experience Plasma as it is
> > > meant to be)
> > >
> > > c) Recommend all sessions in the sense that, contrary to my belief
> > > and
> > > knowledge, there actually is first-hand QA data supporting the idea
> > > that all three sessions are OK for these users?
> > >
> > > I am putting this out with an open mind, so please correct me if I am
> > > not portraying Plasma UX accurately. I am just trying to work with
> > > the
> > > evidence I have, and to use it as best as I can for our users.
> > >
> > > Also if you wonder why I am not writing to the Promo team at KDE
> > > don't
> > > wonder anymore: I have, and they acknowledge that this issue is a
> > > little bit off their department.
> > >
> > > Cheers and thanks for reading,
> > >
> > > Adrien
>
> If you're aiming at new users I guess they would
> have an even stricter expectation than I do and
> I'm neither guru nor novice. From my perspective
> anything that isn't bulletproof belongs in development,
> period. I came to Linux because I want to be able
> to do some cLi and customization and for the implied
> security of open-sorce far from Redmond, I definitely
> didn't do so to become a developper.
I am not sure if I am the correct person to speak here, as I am an average
user (that is, not a developer).
As for your question.
I currently warn all people assisted by me against the use of wayland because
the experience is, in my view, too troublesome.
Somebody with experience understands how to investigate on F10 the output,
makes a dmesg or looks up cat /var/log/messages or journalctl.
But a newbie simply states: it sucks! because not understanding that this is
an epochal change.
Now for one this is bad for the wayland development (because nobody
complaining is not going to fix it) but a newbie will not be able to a) file a
reasonable bug report, b) will not understand if the issue is a bug or pebkac.
The latter would cause a lot of noise and also a bad reputation for KDE (which
has already its highlights with akonadi/PIM.
Second: as a learner / speaker of Chinese, I am using fcitx. As far as I know,
as of the current development, there is no way to reasonably use either fcitx
or ibus with wayland. I know for sure that fcitx does not work.
So whatever statement for plasma should make clear that users relying of fcitx
/ ibus for daily operation should choose x.
A point that raises constant questions and confusion is the understanding
(existential doubt) about a) multiple desktops, b) activities (main part of
people I do know do not really use it, I suspect because not understanding
what it is and not having especially usage examples.
And finally people coming from the window world are somewhat not used to multi
users system work. They also have difficulty to link the world of CLI to the
Plasma desktop, so once they see a terminal window, they will need more
explanation as of why they should use CLI WITH plasma desktop as opposed to
CLI instead of.
Sorry if this is redundant information or if I did completely reply "off
topic" because not understanding correctly what is your real question.
Hope that goes at least in the right direction of your question.
