Lydia your picking nits with a very fine tweezer.
K3b is a SMALL example, I listed larger ones. Rosegarden has what 50
people working on it? No there isn't 100 people working on K3b, but
there are probably at least a dozen not counting translation efforts.
Few if any of those dozen people are likely devoted full time to K3b
development but one person doing all of it would be a bit much.
Do you deny that KDE arose from dissatisfied people? Were all of them
coders? I doubt it. It was a bunch of people like us sitting around
griping about window managers and somebody got the idea to build their
own. The details really are not significant though who it was who
founded the project should be annoted somewhere.
I DO know how such projects form. I was a member of the FreeDOS
project for a time.Again an example of people dissatisfied with what
was going on and stepping forward to fix it. I personally left because
the vision of the group leadership was merely to replicate DOS not
improve it. I wanted too improve it. Eventually it did fill some
niche purposes. The bulk of people who started FreeDOS were not
coders, they were people like us sitting around FIDO net and griping
about M$'s lack of support for DOS.
There are at least 2 or 3 desktop managers released over the last
several years. That is not something you do easily yet it's done.
Saying something is impossible really is a waste of time. Nearly
anything is possible given enough time and resources. It's a question
of whether it should be done and whether the resources exist to do it
as well as whether it's practical. Forking off KDE needs to be done if
the KDE development community fails to heed it's user base. How
practical that is a question. An unknown. It might be made into a moot
point if KDE returns enough of the functionality I rely on. You don't
know until you speak up. So I'm speaking up and hoping against hope
it'll result in returned functionality. Even M$ sometimes listens too
it's user base. If M$ does then there is hope KDE will too.
Hope for the best and plan for the worst. So I'm exploring a fork
right now, looking for others with interest. I'm also checking out
other desktops. One thing I can say for sure, as is KDE 4 is not going
to work for me. The changes have left me in a serious lurch, harmed
how I compute and offered no tangible benefits in return. I want that
functionality back and if I have to expend thousands of hours
organizing a project and working with a language I hate to work in
that's what I have to do. I might not like it, you might not like it
but that's how it is.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Lydia Pintscher <lydia@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 07:59, Draciron Smith <draciron@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> So a fork is necessary rather than individual tweaking. That's where
>> we disagree. Forks happen all the time. Audacious if I remember
>> correctly was a fork off XMMS. Wasn't K3b a fork off something earlier
>> and primitive? Don't remember but man I am glad they created it. Until
>> K3b came out I did all my burning from the command line. No viable GUI
>> alternate really. What was out there was buggy at best and unusuable
>> as often as not. KDE itself is the result of a group of dissatisfied
>> users who got together to do something about the horrid UIs out there
>> at the time. Before KDE I was using FWC something or another. Man that
>> was clumsy and bereft of features. Gnome wasn't any bettter, more
>> features but more bugs too. Those were the only two in existence far
>> as I knew. Then I found KDE and fell in love with it imediately.
>> Wasn't offered by any of the major distros yet. Had to hand compile it
>> and chase down a ton of dependencies but it was well worth it. When
>> Redhat started offering it as an RPM and part of the default installs
>> I was overjoyed.
>
> You should learn your history...
> K3B vs whatever is nothing like KDE 4 vs KDE 3 like you are trying to
> spin it here.
>
>>> To go back to the origin of this talk, obviously telling a normal user either
>>> to join the devs and code some functionalities himself, or to tell him that
>>> the KDE 3 code is free and he can continue developping it himself is just
>>> ridiculous.
>>
>> One person yes. A group no. A group can accomplish a great deal. Look
>> at Ardour or Rosegarden or the Gimp or K3b. One man couldn't write and
>> maintain those. A group does and can. All of them arose from
>> dissatisfaction with what existed out there at the time. There is a
>> great deal of dissatisfaction with KDE 4. Thus a fertile bed for a
>> split. Depends on whether the right people get involved or not.
>
> You have a completely wrong idea about how many people are working on K3B.
>
>
> Cheers
> Lydia
>
> --
> Lydia Pintscher
> Amarok community manager
> kde.org - amarok.kde.org - kubuntu.org
> claimid.com/nightrose
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