--On Sunday, 24 March, 2019 22:44 +1300 Brian Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > That's *exactly* why rough consensus on technical decisions in > the IETF is required to be based on mailing list discussion, > since forever. (Also why we dont have voting!) But when it > gets to picking humans for jobs, or - worse - ejecting them > from jobs, it's always been assumed that some degree of > personal knowledge is needed. That isnt sacred writ, but there > are obvious issues in changing it - e.g. echo chamber effects > in online discourse. Brian, Completely agree up to a point, but let's make a distinction on the eject side. You know this but, to be clear about what we are talking about, there are three steps in that process in terms of participation qualifications: (1) Generating a petition and submitting it to the ISOC President, (2) A recall committee that determines whether someone should be, in your words, ejected, (3) The Nomcom to determine a replacement. Now, for the Nomcom and probably the recall committee, there is a case to be made for personal knowledge although it is becoming less clear that can only be obtained f2f or that the current Nomcom requirements are the best we can do, especially for people with a long participation and f2f meeting history who have been attending f2f less often in recent years (including, e.g., you and me). But, for initiating or endorsing a petition. it seems to me that the only personal experience that is necessary is knowledge of whatever the problem is that is believed to justify kicking someone out. To me, arguing that requires frequent meeting participation would be fairly close to arguing that someone who is not attending three of five meetings cannot use the anti-harassment procedures because, being remote, they can't be harassed or otherwise abused. At present, a person in that position cannot initiate a recall without organizing twenty people who are frequent meeting attendees and otherwise nomcom-eligible. That is hard because they don't have the personal experience and contacts for which nomcom eligibility is a surrogate, precisely because they are not attending meetings. There are words for that sort of arrangement, and they aren't very nice. best, john
