I have a meta-question. If we wanted to treat MS as a first class engaged entity and lodge a report, what is the channel we can use, which doesn't either get ignored, or because it comes in too "low" gets missed, or worse, repudiated on the basis 'it must be wrong because we are right' I have tried this in the past in other contexts, such as X.509. The response I got was "it is very hard to find a channel into microsoft with sufficient seniority to effect change, who is willing to listen to you" Basically, anyone from microsoft who comes to the IETF does so as a subject matter expert and has no influence outside their specific domain. Inside their domain, their influence is strictly limited by product process. So, on that basis, if we identify problems with microsoft product and BOM, We cannot assume any named entity with @microsoft.com on their affiliation email can help us. The question stands: what channel as an SDO, does the IETF have, to report to MS corporate they have a problem in UTF text handling? This is only partly a rhetorical question. My suspicion is, there is nobody, and we cannot effect change as an SDO, or even as individuals, except in as much as somebody senior inside MS choses (and I stress choses) to take notice. If thats not the case, I'd love to know. (I left John K on the cc list because past history of activity in 7 and 8 bit character standardisation and subsequently glyphs and homophones suggests he might know both the subject matter experts, and senior people in MS) -G