We may need a new supply of the old "multilingual" tee shirts in Chicago. Pete, still have the original templates? :-( john --On Monday, January 30, 2017 03:08 +0800 James Seng <james.seng@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > I rescind my previous comment that the scenario I painted is > rhetorical. > > None of our US fellow IETFers here have any moral authority to > talk about "inclusive" ever again. > > -James Seng > > On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 5:44 AM, James Seng > <james.seng@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> Since after 9-11, things have change a lot for United >> States[1]. >> >> Especially for TSA, I remember going to SFO the first time >> after 9-11, it took me 2 hours just to clear the security and >> I missed my flight. I also remember pre 9-11, I could get >> into US for less than 15-20mins. >> >> Now, for my American friends who pay in the price in time, >> let me tell you what we non-American citizen has to do to get >> into US after 9-11. We have been tagged, photographed, >> fingerprinted, all our 10 fingers every time we have to enter >> US. We have been systematically profiled, often by racial or >> nationality, and some of us have to go through enhanced >> body-to-body search everytime we cross security. I was put in >> a "Muslim" basket been a Malaysian for a while so ... And we >> have to do it with a smile because if any of us pull of a >> stunt like Aaron Tobey[2], we could be denied our entry and >> possibility forever. >> >> My wife complains that the over the last decade I have put on >> a lot of weight and asked me to check my photos. >> Unfortunately, I don't like selfie nor do I like to take >> pictures of myself. But I told her not to worry as TSA has a >> complete profile of me becoming fat over the years. >> >> Today, we all saw a US President may-to-be calling up to >> forbid Muslim to enter US, to build walls to prevent people >> from the south, who threaten to get even tougher to >> foreigners. >> >> So by the same principle that Jeff is advocate, that we hold >> IETF meeting where "law declares some people less valid", I >> prognosticate we may no longer able to hold our meetings in >> US. >> >> [1] >> http://www.ibtimes.com/pulse/united-states-after-911-6-thing >> s-have-changed-2001-2093156 >> >> [2] >> http://dailylounge.com/the-daily/entry/how-to-fight-the-tsa >> >> ps: This is rhetorical to put any doubt in rest. I love US >> even though getting there is still a pain for me. >> >> -James Seng >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:34 PM, MH Michael Hammer (5304) >> <MHammer@xxxxxx> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: ietf [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of >>> > Thompson, Jeff Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 3:55 AM >>> > To: Dan Harkins >>> > Cc: recentattendees@xxxxxxxx; Ietf@Ietf. Org >>> > Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore >>> > go/no go for IETF 100 >>> > >>> > On 2016/5/26, 21:11:51, "Recentattendees on behalf of Dan >>> > Harkins" <recentattendees-bounces@xxxxxxxx on behalf of >>> > dharkins@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> > >>> > > I would also like to suggest that the ability of >>> > > certain members to bring their family on a vacation >>> > > that coincides with an IETF should not be a governing >>> > > factor in venue selection. Many people like to launder a >>> > > business trip into a family vacation (myself >>> > > included!) but that's not why the IETF exists and it >>> > > should have no bearing on where we meet. >>> > >>> > So then, the IETF policy would read ³The IETF may hold >>> > meetings in >>> countries >>> > where the law declares some people less valid. If you are >>> > such a >>> person, then >>> > the IETF recommends that to avoid trouble with the law you >>> > should hide >>> who >>> > you are, including not bringing your family.² >>> > >>> > Is this the organization that the IETF is going to be? >>> > >>> > - Jeff >>> > >>> >>> Jeff, >>> >>> Is there any country in the world that meets the standard >>> your comment implies should be the IETF policy? Is this a >>> case of perfection being the enemy of good? Perhaps it is a >>> case of perfection being the enemy of reality. I don't know >>> what IETF policy should be but I do recognize that there are >>> very real limitations that constrain choices. I'll also >>> point out that the choices made will constrain the choices >>> of participants. I'm not advocating for any particular >>> choice by the IETF with regard to meeting locations. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Recentattendees mailing list >>> Recentattendees@xxxxxxxx >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/recentattendees >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> -James Seng