There should be little comfort in seeing that the IETF is not the only place that being personally abusive is the norm: Linux kernel dev Sarah Sharp quits, citing ‘brutal’ communications style http://www.networkworld.com/article/2988850/opensource-subnet/linux-kernel-dev-sarah-sharp-quits-citing-brutal-communications-style.html Direct assaults on specific individuals are the easy examples to see, even if they do not cross over as an attack on an identified class. What is more difficult to note and appreciate is a general tone of disrespect spread more broadly, by studiously misinterpreting what is said, asserting strawmen, and otherwise serving to distract from the focus on what was said. Then of course, there are the nearly-inevitable and unprofessional snipes about whining and micromanagement. All of which work quite nicely to undermine broad participation by presenting a very strong disincentive to most participants, who can see little benefit and much unpleasant risk in making suggestions or even participating in public discussions. Note the latest thread about IESG workload as merely one example of the severe lack of community engagement. But really, it's so much more satisfying to be dismissive of proposals than it is to focus on real and basic problems. Real and basic problems are difficult to solve. Sniping is easy. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net