> The second issue is that I believe that we have ample evidence > that any attempt to open 5321bis would generate a tremendous > amount of discussion (some would say "noise") I'll suggest a very simple and basic point that makes most other issues largely irrelevant: There is no community consensus about the changes that are needed to improve Internet Mail. Many individuals are convinced they know Truth in that regard, but they have little basis for their beliefs, little understanding of the implications for the installed base or for the range of email scenarios that are legitimate and useful and/or are ignoring quite a bit of experience; but in all cases haven't bothered to garner significant community support. Many other individuals believe that the way to get improvement is to throw out the current mail service and start over, but that is, really, nothing but a preference for anarchy, since they don't even have a set of specifics they are selling. Get the community to agree on that changes in functionality or operations. Then we can try to figure out how to provide them. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net