On 9/22/2015 12:07 PM, John C Klensin wrote: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/conflict-review-crocker-diversity-conduct/), ... > I believe > that, if both documents are to be published, the community would > be better served by having these documents published together > and having at least one reference and explanation of the > different perspectives in one (or both) of them. There is much that I agree with in John's posting, but this isn't one of them. This independent document is independent. It is a discussion piece by a couple of IETF participants. The other document is a product of the IETF and it is intended to become part of the formal IETF administrative structure. If it takes work to understand the very considerable importance this difference means, in terms of role and handling of an independent document, then please do that work. One of the less-pleasant bits of education I received throughout the /seven months/ it has taken to get through the 'Independent' stream process is that it is far from independent. There seems to be a common view that documents on that stream must be meaningfully subservient to the IETF, rather than actually providing independent input to it. I won't distract this thread further with details about the multiple conceptual problems that afflicted the handling of this document, other than to ask that no one try to impose further restrictions on a document that really is intended to be /independent/. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net