On Aug 20, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Randy Bush <randy@xxxxxxx> wrote: > >> It’s quite possible that the appropriate tradeoff for society >> continues to be that as documented in RFC1984, but it should be >> recognized as an actual tradeoff and not an an approach without any >> impact to lawful enforcement activities (as might be implied from your >> comments above.) > > sorry, i can't resist > > We should not be building surveillance technology into standards. Law > enforcement was not supposed to be easy. Where it is easy, it's called a > police state. -- Jeff Schiller Randy - Actually, that is a perfect example of my point - Jeff’s quote (with respect to not including surveillance technology) actually acknowledges that there is an impact as a result that choice; i.e. ‘LE not supposed to be easy.’ That’s quite different than some of the assertions on this list implying that RFC1984 has no impact to LEA activities… If the IETF is going to make a statement, it should be an intellectually honest one and acknowledge that there could be an LEA impact, but even so, that outcome is still the desirable tradeoff in the circumstances. /John Disclaimer: my views alone.