On 6/26/2015 12:37 AM, Harald Alvestrand wrote: > Den 25. juni 2015 17:56, skrev Joe Touch: >> Nope. The IETF isn't political at all. > > We take positions, and we're proud of it. > > A Mission Statement for the IETF (RFC 3935) section 4.1 is most explicit: > > The Internet isn't value-neutral, and neither is the IETF. We want > the Internet to be useful for communities that share our commitment > to openness and fairness. We embrace technical concepts such as > decentralized control, edge-user empowerment and sharing of > resources, because those concepts resonate with the core values of > the IETF community. These concepts have little to do with the > technology that's possible, and much to do with the technology that > we choose to create. IMO, your interpretation of this as relating to political issues mistakes the IETF for EFF. Further, organizations that promote political agendas take great pains to separate those events (and financial resources) from non-political meetings. Otherwise, e.g., those on US gov't funds might be questioned about their registration fees here. I take the above instead to mean that the IETF should not "let a thousand flowers bloom" but rather pick technologies based on their core values. When the IETF has had opportunity to do this, they have summarily and repeatedly failed in favor of the profits of their participants. I have said repeatedly that "sometimes the right answer is 'no'". > The powerful IETF community reaction to the pervasive monitoring issue > just shows that what we adopted as IETF consensus in BCP 95, 2004 is > still what this community's about. How exactly do the following fit with "resonating with the [IETF's} core values" (e.g., the E2E principle, simple core/smart edge, etc.)? with BCP95?: - support for NAT - support for DPI via deep parsing of IPv6 header chains Seems to me those *enable* pervasive monitoring. Oh, yeah - that's OK when it's for profit ;-) > And I'm proud of that. I support everyone's ability to do so personally. Doing so as a group, IMO, again confuses the IETF with the EFF. Joe > > >> >> Joe >> >>> On Jun 24, 2015, at 2:02 PM, Mark Nottingham <mnot@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>> I'm pleased to announce that there will be a screening of CITIZENFOUR at 7pm on Sunday in Prague (right after the Welcome Reception), in Congress Hall. >>> >>> For more information on the film, see: >>> https://citizenfourfilm.com/ >>> >>> We'll be starting promptly at 7, and space is limited. This event is open to all IETF attendees and companions. Thanks to the ADs who have made the room available. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >>> >>