Hi Yoav, On 6/11/15 7:46 AM, Yoav Nir wrote: >> On Jun 11, 2015, at 12:58 AM, Michael StJohns <mstjohns@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> Let me try this again. >> >> 1) Is my description of the IETF process reasonably close to reality? E.g. does the consensus process contribute to "Standardization by Combat”? > Perhaps. But the best tactic for winning this kind of combat in the IETF is not to shout louder than others. The best tactic is to get a small group around you (preferably not all from the same company), insist on your position and refuse to budge. Then wait it out until your opponents grow tired and walk away. That's exactly what I witnessed. I am ashamed to say that I did not myself say something more at the time (although I was in a very awkward position to do so). > > It is up to chairs to prevent this kind of outcome. I mean, we think of tenacity as a good quality but it shouldn’t override all others. One way is to encourage reaching consensus quickly. Long discussions tend to favor the tenacious. It's also up to us as individuals to call out bad behavior, and for all of us to recognize that just because something is said more than once doesn't make it any more true (or false). And so, my challenge to the leadership: how shall we address this problem? I'd like to at least know that the problem is recognized. Eliot
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