On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 01:17:59AM +0000, l.wood@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > > while I applaud your efforts and the efforts of the posters you > cite, the fact remains that security rules the IETF these days, and > so the security directorate rules the IESG. There is consensus > because the security directorate has decreed there is consensus. So, > this document, which concerns security, will get published. There is > no remaining oversight. Consensus != unanimity. And it is the duty of the working group chair and the area directory to determine whether rough consensus has been reached. If someone consistently addresses the same arguments, ultimately someone has to make a choice about whether or not consensus has been reached. So in fact, this is how things are supposed to work. There is oversight, which is the established appeal process, but ultimately, it might be useful to remember the fact that a decision was reached that happens to disagree with your particular opinion does not necessary mean that there was a process violation. Cheers, - Ted