IETF-15 was very productive indeed. One of the metrics of productivity is workable set sizes. A working group, task force, design team, cabal really works best when its not a group of 200 of your close personal friends. An affliction the IETF has is that it is too large, cumbersome, and downright unwieldy. It lacks the nimble, agile edge it used to have as an youth. Now reaching middle age, it has added a hundred and fifty kilos and a massive sense of entitlement and self worth… It lumbers around debating trivialities and folks doing real work find other venues to explore/design and only when cooked do they think of bringing the work to the IETF for rubber-stamping. (and yes, I do remember with fondness the “water-cooler” spirit Mike relates) So - for a novel suggestion. Split the IETF areas into autonomous entities that run their own meetings, in essence franchising the IETF model. The IETF itself only meets bi-annually and only to coordinate areas. Size concerns dissipate, the number of available venues goes up and related costs go down. as usual, YMMV. /bill PO Box 12317 Marina del Rey, CA 90295 310.322.8102 On 12August2014Tuesday, at 15:02, Nico Williams <nico@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:55 PM, John Levine <johnl@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> Obviously all other things being equal, I’d rather be in Hawaii than Minneapolis. >> >> I don't know about anyone else, but I would vastly prefer to be in >> Minneapolis. It's closer, cheaper, more conducive to work, and the >> food is better. > > +1 > > Legend has it that there was once a meeting in Hawaii, and nothing got > done. The beach and all that. > > Don't underestimate the value of "cheap", something Minneapolis has in spades. >