yes, yes… however there are more than a decades worth of IDs that carry no ISOC/IETF copyright. For those, the rights exist only with the authors. As a condition of publication was the fact that they were intended/expected to be ephemeral and the IETF right to publish expired six months after initial publication. It would be a real shame to have the IETF and its participants knowingly violate others rights by republication of their works without explicit written permission. This is not the first time this has come up in an IETF context and is certainly discoverable as evidence of willful intent to steal intellectual property of others. so Warren, it might be wise to consider the scope of your efforts and if you choose to go after early materials, consider the prudence of getting prior, written permission before making blanket presumptions of propriety or legality. /bill Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. On 16July2014Wednesday, at 20:59, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On 17/07/2014 15:08, manning bill wrote: >> just a heads up. if any of my expired drafts show up that predate IETF copyright, expect a takedown notice. > > I hope you're aware that ISOC ceded its rights to the IETF Trust, > so drafts carrying the ISOC copyright wording should belong to the IETF too. > > Brian > >> i am pretty sure you will get the same type of response from Joe Touch. >> >> >> /bill >> PO Box 12317 >> Marina del Rey, CA 90295 >> 310.322.8102 >> >> On 16July2014Wednesday, at 19:30, Dean Willis <dean.willis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>> On Jul 2, 2014, at 1:15 PM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>>> Interesting, Warren. >>>> >>>> I used to use waterspring and still have an annoying bookmark that autocompletes when I start to type www.wat... >>>> >>>> At the time that waterspring was set up we didn't archive old versions of I-Ds and once an I-D had expired it disappeared (related issues, but separately annoying). That is no longer the case, so the (UI aside) the main residual value would be retrieving the archive of old I-Ds and I am not so sure how useful that is, but archivists and IPR lawyers might comment). >>> Yes, actually I was just about to post a note calling for helping finding some list archives from 1996-2000 that appear to be mostly missing from the IETF site. >>> >>> The same thing applies to lots of old I-D. These can be critically useful in knocking out nuisance patents. We need them very, very much. >>> >>> — >>> Dean >>> >>> >> >> >