On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 12:15 PM, Joe Touch <touch@xxxxxxx> wrote: > I'm talking about whether the IETF/ISOC is a useful home for the discussion. > I don't think it is, because for every 100 network researchers there are 101 > such documents "predicting the future", none of which have done much without > associated money. Well you completely missed the difference between a goal and a prediction: A goal is an outcome that is desired. A prediction is an outcome that is expected. As I pointed out at the start, the money concern here is what to spend it on. And I am asking the question of people who form the IETF what goals they are interested in. That seems like the sort of exercise every organization should carry out. And since the IETF does not have any form of representative governance this is the obvious place to raise that question. Asking what IETF people what they would like to achieve is not the same as asking them what they think the IETF should do. As you know very well, when I don't think something is a fit for the IETF, I take the work elsewhere. And if there isn't an organization that is a fit we can start another one. Been there and done that four times now. >> The problem I see at the moment is that the IETF has been very US >> centric and the response to other governments suggesting they should >> play a similar role to the US has been parochial at best. > > The IETF is an engineering organization, and does its best work when it > focuses on that. Pontification is for people who wear funny hats ;-) Twenty years ago your government asked me where they could best spend money on Internet related research. Now there are non-US parties asking me the same question. Trying to give them an answer is hardly 'pontificating'. >> There is no shortage of research funds to 'make things happen'. That >> being a superset of research funds available to US based researchers. > > > There have been more than a few efforts in this area, and yes, it's a > superset of the funds available from the US. Examples that jump to mind are: > > Akari - Japan > 4Ward - EU > FIRE - EU > FIBRE - Brazil/EU > > Do you think the funding agencies around the world are driven by documents > issued by the ISOC? If so, then why do most of them end up writing their > own? (hint: because they have the money). Because they have more vision than ISOC does.